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Forums - Politics Discussion - There is no Such Thing as "White Privilege"

Soundwave on 26 January 2016
PerturbedKitty said:
Soundwave said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ABRlWybBqM

Yeah racial profiling doesn't exist. At all. lol.

Reality is people are petty, superficial. You get judged on the color of your skin on a daily basis all the time. 

i watched the entire video. lol that's pretty fucked up and disappointing. does this prove that white women are the real culprits who are hogging all the privilege? lol.

ok, but in all seriousness, youre right about something for once. people were racial profiling in this video. nobody should be engaging in this activity, but when the person was white, people were not as quick to call the police. that is an injustice. but are there any examples of somebody doing something completely innocent? ill give you a personal experience i had when i was 17. i had just got my first car and my dad sent me to go get a key copied. well, i went to OSH and it was my first time being in a hardware store like that by myself, so i didnt know where the fuck anything was. i ended up in the gardening section before i actually found where i was supposed to go, and i was literally stopped by somebody because i looked shady like i was going to steal something. the truth was that i was just lost and didnt know where the hell i was. 

another experience i had was that i wanted to work at the financial aid office at my school for a summer, and i was interviewed by a group of 4 hispanic women and 1 asian woman. i didnt think anything of it, but i left the interview feeling like i wasnt going to get the job because i wasnt the right demographic that they were looking for. you know when you do really well in an interview, and i felt great about it, but there was something in me that made me feel like i had to do that much better because i was a white male. its a shitty feeling. that was 3 years ago, and i take notice every time im in that office and they just dont hire white guys for whatever reason. im sure they apply since there are so many at my school, yet the people who work there are a very specific demographic. very curious indeed.

 

People profile based on looks all the time, and your race is a key component of that.

This is even evident when people run into racially ambigious individuals, you can tell this confuses some people because they don't quite know how to "place" that person, I have a friend like this and he constantly gets asked "just curious, what are you?" all the time, lol. Like people will ask in a polite, nice way, but it also then asks the question ... "why does it matter?". Obviously it does. 

We'd be better off if we just admitted it rather than pretending it doesn't happen. 

Yes we have advanced in some ways, but we are still a fairly petty, superfical species in many, many other ways. Racial identity is still very much a core component of a person's identity. 



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Tigerlure on 26 January 2016
MikeRox said:
Tigerlure said:

For someone who says they go to school, you must not be learning anything. Take a basic Sociology course. You'll learn that it's a real thing. I'll spell out specific examples for you.

White privilege is having generational wealth because your family after World War II was not forced into segregated, red-zoned neighborhoods. 

White privilege is using that wealth to get access to better schools and a better education because your family can afford to pay the high property taxes.

White privilege is using drug at the same rate as African Americans, but not being dispropotionately targeted by police.

White privilege is not being pulled over by police for driving a nice car while being black/latino.

White privilege is not getting your resume thrown out, when you're just as qualified as the next white applicant but are discriminated due to a foreign sounding name.

Those are just a few examples. Some are defensive about white privilege because they take it to mean that they haven't worked hard for what they earned. That is NOT what white privilege is. No one is saying you haven't earned what you've worked hard for. What we're saying is that there are conscious and subsconscious biases in society that give you certain advantages.

 

So American white privilege? I think this forum gets lost in topics like this because there are global users. And while I can see every example fitting the US, it doesn't fit as a template globally.

Yeah, I'm focusing on privilege in the US.





Areym on 26 January 2016
Lawlight said:
Areym said:
All I know is that if you are born white, straight and male, that's close to hitting the lottery in the US. Not a guaranteed to an super easy life, but a lot more doors are open to you.

As a hispanic male, I think there is some white privilege but not so extreme that is the cause for every minority's problems. I think of white privilege more in the sense that being white makes life generally easier. Whites are regarded or "viewed" as more educated, intelligent, and such here in the US, it's just (almost but not really) a fact.

You realise that white, straight males are the target of SJWs around the world, right? And they don't get special scholarships or awards.

Probably cause they don't really need to. Generally speaking, white families are more prosperous than black ones and can afford to give their children an education, at least from what i've seen. I go to university in Charlotte, NC, where a large part of the population is black but whites make up about 60 to 70 of the alumni. That probably means nothing to you, but it paints a picture to me.

Again, I don't see white privilage as being given everything on a silver platter. Hell, I don't even like the word "privilege." It's more like, whites just have it easier in some aspects of life based on some deep rooted and still present discrimination towards minorities, which is why the playing field is technically "evened out" for the rest of us. That's the way I see it, anyways. Granted, i have never faced discrimination personally.





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binary solo on 26 January 2016

Yes there is. I'm white and I know I am privileged because of my whiteness. Therefore I have white privilege. Therefore white privilege exists.

End of discussion.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Scoobes on 26 January 2016
PerturbedKitty said:
SpokenTruth said:

What was that I was saying before about the privelaged not knowing they are privelaged or seeing the struggle of those rows behind them?

In truth, I'm not going to be able to convince you here.  This kind of understanding isn't something that reveals itself on an Internet forum.  You'll have to do some objective research (willing to learn about it is often the hardest part of getting others to understand...I'm sure you can see that regardless of the topic).  You're a good person that wants to see people treated equally and that's noble.  We need more of that.  But we also need people to be willing to look at it one step closer.  And I'll admit, it's a damn tought thing to do.

Ok I see how this works. Because of my race and gender, my perspective doesn't mean shit lol. I have absolutely nothing of value to offer here.

Don't worry, even though what you're saying is something that would be incredibly offensive to most people, there is none taken here. Honestly, there isn't. 

But like I said, the obvious truth of disadvantage is not sufficient evidence for me just as "the obvious truth that there is a God" isn't sufficient evidence to convert an atheist. 

Well a quick Google search brings up this:

http://www.jbwtucker.com/ultimate-white-privilege-statistics/

And a brief literature search also throws up this paper from Stanford about the denial of racial privilege among white populations:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103115000852

Make of that what you will.

OT: The data and evidence suggests you're wrong. Up to you if you want to read up on the topic and inform youself or just stay ignorant with a false opinion.




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binary solo on 26 January 2016
SpokenTruth said:
PerturbedKitty said:

No, I don't. "The obvious truth that racial minorities and women are disadvantaged" is not sufficient evidence for me to believe that it actually exists.

What was that I was saying before about the privelaged not knowing they are privelaged or seeing the struggle of those rows behind them?

In truth, I'm not going to be able to convince you here.  This kind of understanding isn't something that reveals itself on an Internet forum.  You'll have to do some objective research (willing to learn about it is often the hardest part of getting others to understand...I'm sure you can see that regardless of the topic).  You're a good person that wants to see people treated equally and that's noble.  We need more of that.  But we also need people to be willing to look at it one step closer.  And I'll admit, it's a damn tought thing to do.

The problem for people who want society to be equal but who strongly deny there's any sort of privilege is that failing to recognise a problem means never being able to actually achieve the sort of equality they want to see. Or more depressingly, they think society is operating at optimal equality already.

Also even more depressingly, people who think white privilege doesn't exist can only explain the positon of minorities occupying the negative socio-economic indicators in higher proportion (unemployment rates, imprisonment rates, poverty rates etc) as being the fault of that person's race or culture. Leading to the inevitable conclusion that certain races are inferior, hence racism. If you can't acknowledge that historical socio-economic oppression continues to have a contemporary effect then you can only conclude that there is something "wrong" with that racial minority for them to still be poor, criminal and unemployed in statistically higher numbers than the "successful" races. Same goes for women. If historical oppression of women does not continue to have a contemporary influence then the underachievement of women in various socio-economic factors leads to the conclusion that women are inferior.





“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

DonFerrari on 26 January 2016
Wyrdness said:
DonFerrari said:

Because Afro-American, Asian-American and Native-American don't like to be called black, yellow, red... while white american don't fuck care to be called white or caucassian, so they just use American. You are barking at the wrong three.

I'm Brazilian... white skinned... I have 3/4 black african blood, 1/4 italian immigrant blood (know relatives). Should I call myself Afro-Euro-Brazilian? Nope I'm Brazilian, but black people don't want anyone to say they are brazilian or have dark skin they want to be called Afro-Brazilian.

Yet in places like the UK you don't see any of that, only people I've seen here say they're African are actual Africans themselves for example so I don't fully buy what you're saying, here if they're British they just say British. It's also tree not three btw.

And do UK calling themselves UK no matter the color have to do with US and Brazil people wanting to label themselves Afro or Asian plus USA or BR?

And about profilling. Why would anyone be surprised or offended to be profilled if Police act on statistics and people in generalization? If in a population 90% of the crimes are commited by green colored individuals, 9% by blue colored and only 1% by violet colored people. Should we expect police to look at all of them in the same way? And other people that don't know them? Considering someone inferior because of race is wrong, but profilling based on statistic is a little different. And to add several times the profilled person also wear clothes and have gestures, demeanors and other things related to gangs and songs that talk about violence and cop hating. So who anyone seriously think it's reasonable to expect the police to give the same potential for crime to a thug style cloth and skin color related to most violent crimes and a well dressed and groomed person with skin color rarely showing commiting violent crime? Would we consider Asian Privilegies that asiatics are looked as more dedicated to studying when they in fact are?



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Soundwave on 26 January 2016
DonFerrari said:
Wyrdness said:
DonFerrari said:

Because Afro-American, Asian-American and Native-American don't like to be called black, yellow, red... while white american don't fuck care to be called white or caucassian, so they just use American. You are barking at the wrong three.

I'm Brazilian... white skinned... I have 3/4 black african blood, 1/4 italian immigrant blood (know relatives). Should I call myself Afro-Euro-Brazilian? Nope I'm Brazilian, but black people don't want anyone to say they are brazilian or have dark skin they want to be called Afro-Brazilian.

Yet in places like the UK you don't see any of that, only people I've seen here say they're African are actual Africans themselves for example so I don't fully buy what you're saying, here if they're British they just say British. It's also tree not three btw.

And do UK calling themselves UK no matter the color have to do with US and Brazil people wanting to label themselves Afro or Asian plus USA or BR?

And about profilling. Why would anyone be surprised or offended to be profilled if Police act on statistics and people in generalization? If in a population 90% of the crimes are commited by green colored individuals, 9% by blue colored and only 1% by violet colored people. Should we expect police to look at all of them in the same way? And other people that don't know them? Considering someone inferior because of race is wrong, but profilling based on statistic is a little different. And to add several times the profilled person also wear clothes and have gestures, demeanors and other things related to gangs and songs that talk about violence and cop hating. So who anyone seriously think it's reasonable to expect the police to give the same potential for crime to a thug style cloth and skin color related to most violent crimes and a well dressed and groomed person with skin color rarely showing commiting violent crime? Would we consider Asian Privilegies that asiatics are looked as more dedicated to studying when they in fact are?

 

The majority of mass shootings in the US are done by white men ... do they get profiled more because of it? Majority of serial killers are also white males, ditto for pedophiles. I don't know of any profiling done there. 



Soundwave on 26 January 2016
DonFerrari said:
teigaga said:
DonFerrari said:
Puppyroach said:

Except Sweden has one of the lowest debt-per-GDP in the world at something like 40%. We also had a gdp growth last year of 3,9% which is amazing considering how much turmoil we have in the world right now.

From what I know the trend is that of a growing debt.

teigaga said:
DonFerrari said:

Jews had it a lot

Whats the context? Genocide versus 150 years of slavery and social deprivation are not comparable when looking at the generational impact on american communities.

Unless the Jewish experienced a recent century of basic reading+writing abilities being trained out of them, we really shouldn't be comparing the two. Not in the context of this discussion.

Besides having 6M MURDERED? Being despised and hunt in Germany for decades before, being hunted on Spain and Portugal for centuries (perhaps other european countries as well during the middle age), being slaves on Egypt and a lot more... yes jew had it easy.

Where did anyone say they had it easy and Where are you responding to my point?

The Jewish enslavement in Egypt  pre-dates the bible. Why are we comparing that to slavery which is recent enough for children of actual slaves to still be alive today in America? It makes no sense, which is why context is key.

Equally you can't just compare different 2 atrocities and treat them as the same. A key component of recent African American history was the removal of literacy in the last 2 century's. A means of the community to nurture itself and grow. In the west the community has never had strong pockets of wealth, power and influence like the Jewish. The community also never recieved reperations, whereas the jewish did. You're comparing apples and pears.

And you choose to ignore the persecution/prejudice against jew in Europe from before 1500 going all the way up to 2 WW?

How did Europeans removed literacy of the Slaves if their tribes were iliterate to begin with? And during slavery most of white people were iliterate as well.

Reparation of jewish for being exterminated I'm mostly sure didn't even equate to how much of their possessions were robbed from them on the nazi germany, but certainly no one looked for reparation for all the rest prior to that, and was done to the people that were directly abused not to all jews alive. How do you want to calculate a debt from someone who didn't commit a crime to someone that didn't suffer that crime on an expectation of what may have happened 150 years before and not even involve both? In Brazil it's show that something between 90-98% of population have black/african heritage, how do you want to calculate the debt? By looking at how dark a skin is?

SpokenTruth said:
PerturbedKitty said:

How does their race tell you anything about their individual circumstance? You keep making this distinction between individuals and collectives, yet you just contradicted it here by saying their race informs you of their circumstance and is something to be considered. 

Dude you're literally telling me that I have to treat people different based on their race. Not once when I interact with people do I remind myself "ok, I'm speaking to an African American male right now" and you know what, I shouldn't ever have to think about that. Part of not being a racist is not considering someone's race when you're talking to them. Treating them as an equal, not as someone who is disadvantaged or in some way handicapped. I would hate it if somebody thought they had to talk to me differently because I'm white. Those are the kind of people I'd like to stay away from. I want to be around people who treat me as an equal and don't consider my race or gender, and youre taking it upon yourself to make a declaration for the entire black community.

What if black people dont want people to keep in mind that they're black and that they have this different experience that they cannot understand? Sure im sure that there are some black people who would love it if every white person they encountered would think this way, but I bet that most of them do not. I bet most of them do not want the people they are talking with to consider their race as some sort of significant factor in how they interact with them. I believe my fellow humans want to be treated and seen as equals.

Let me put it another way.

Would you be ok being born black?  Or any minority?  Or a woman?  Would you be OK dealing with the extra crap they have to deal with in life?  Now if you were, how would you want people to address you and your circumstances?  Would you want them to ignore your history, your culture, your differences?  I can assure you that people do not like to have that ignored.  Does that mean your interaction between people of different races and cultures will be drastically different?  Probably not.  But there should be some subtle differences but that goes the case with all interactions anyway...even if you're not consciously aware of it.

Yes I would. I'm white skinned while my brother would be considered black. We both were born from like 6/8 of our ancestors being slaves 4 generations ago (more or less) with the other 2/8 being from Italian that were in slavelike conditions when immigrated to brazil and my wife is japanese decendent. Family history show that as soon as one in each branch decided studying were important the next generation were improving leaps and bounds.

People ignore all my history, culture and differences to say I'm privileged, why should I consider any individual to have a more meaningless heritage or relevance than myself to say they deserve special threatment? The only people I care about their experience or would think should care about mine are people that I have close connections to.

All the other I would say is indiferent, if I don't have their history I can only evaluate by what he represent.

So am I the privileged one because my skin is lighter than my brother or sister?

Wyrdness said:
On the whole privilege thing if it didn't exist can someone explain why white Americans are simply called American while other ethnic groups are called Afro-American, Asian-American and so on?

I kind of agree with Spoken Truth, tbh.

Because Afro-American, Asian-American and Native-American don't like to be called black, yellow, red... while white american don't fuck care to be called white or caucassian, so they just use American. You are barking at the wrong three.

I'm Brazilian... white skinned... I have 3/4 black african blood, 1/4 italian immigrant blood (know relatives). Should I call myself Afro-Euro-Brazilian? Nope I'm Brazilian, but black people don't want anyone to say they are brazilian or have dark skin they want to be called Afro-Brazilian.

 

If you have 3/4 black africian blood ... you're "black" to the average white person. In the US anyway. 



Scoobes on 26 January 2016
DonFerrari said:
Wyrdness said:
DonFerrari said:

Because Afro-American, Asian-American and Native-American don't like to be called black, yellow, red... while white american don't fuck care to be called white or caucassian, so they just use American. You are barking at the wrong three.

I'm Brazilian... white skinned... I have 3/4 black african blood, 1/4 italian immigrant blood (know relatives). Should I call myself Afro-Euro-Brazilian? Nope I'm Brazilian, but black people don't want anyone to say they are brazilian or have dark skin they want to be called Afro-Brazilian.

Yet in places like the UK you don't see any of that, only people I've seen here say they're African are actual Africans themselves for example so I don't fully buy what you're saying, here if they're British they just say British. It's also tree not three btw.

And do UK calling themselves UK no matter the color have to do with US and Brazil people wanting to label themselves Afro or Asian plus USA or BR?

And about profilling. Why would anyone be surprised or offended to be profilled if Police act on statistics and people in generalization? If in a population 90% of the crimes are commited by green colored individuals, 9% by blue colored and only 1% by violet colored people. Should we expect police to look at all of them in the same way? And other people that don't know them? Considering someone inferior because of race is wrong, but profilling based on statistic is a little different. And to add several times the profilled person also wear clothes and have gestures, demeanors and other things related to gangs and songs that talk about violence and cop hating. So who anyone seriously think it's reasonable to expect the police to give the same potential for crime to a thug style cloth and skin color related to most violent crimes and a well dressed and groomed person with skin color rarely showing commiting violent crime? Would we consider Asian Privilegies that asiatics are looked as more dedicated to studying when they in fact are?

Unfortunately, profiling usually isn't based on stats but ideology and inherent prejudices.






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