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Forums - Politics Discussion - Can Feminists Get Any More Desperate?

JamesGoblin on 15 January 2016
Aeolus451 said:
JamesGoblin said:

Ah, good to know - handy little piece of info.

 

Thaks!

 


Well, it is relevant in this if people are suggesting that punishing criminals isn't disuading bad people from breaking the law. Conditions in prisons are too nice. 

That's quite possible, I just stumbled across interesting bit of info, maybe even potentially useful. Offtopic and without a drop of sarcasm - sorry if I made it seem so.





    CU......or CF ?

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ReimTime on 15 January 2016
bdbdbd said:
ReimTime said:

I'm sorry you feel that way about my example, I can tell it was a poor way of getting across what I wanted to say.

"which opinions are you talking about exactly?"

In context, the opinion that women should be held accountable for being raped. I can't really expand upon that without redundancy.

Contrary to my prior beliefs, it appears that we actually share many opinion.

The only part I may disagree with (and I can't tell if you hold this opinion or not, but I think others do) is how we may go about taking precautions to lower the risk of future sexual abuse. Some users present here, it would seem, think that action needs to be taken by the females (ie: don't go out alone etc.). I believe that there are better ways of dealing with it, starting with an educational foundation and continuing with moral accountability on the male's part. Is that a losing battle? Will there always be rapists? That's tough to say, but telling women not to go out alone or get drunk seems like an inefficient way of dealing with an existing problem IMO.

You don't see a disparency with the moral accountability? I mean, are you suggesting that ones should have only freedom, and others only responsibilities? Essentially retuning to an era when women were property of their fathers or husbands?

Of course there will always be rapists. Just like there will always be murderers too. 

About the crime and punishment: the punishment works primarily to prevent things from happening, but one aspect I see rarely discussed today is, that prison or death are to have people who don't fit/are dangerous to society/people removed from the society to prevent him/her to cause more harm. If a rapist is put to prison, he/she do not rape while in prison - at least the normal people in society. If a murderer is senteced to death, he won't murder any more people.

Hmmm forgive me for misunderstanding your post but I'm not seeing the connection here. What I am saying I want to see is:

>Women and men all go out in however manner they choose

>Nobody gets raped

Now what is the best way of achieving this Utopia? It isn't the female's/male's fault that she/he got raped. She/he didn't rape themselves, and besides, trying to avoid bad situations it is not a 100% guarantee that it will never happen again. Is increasing criminal punishmennt for convicted rapists the best method? Maybe, maybe not. Is further objective education for everyone on the topic the best method? Well, it will certainly help.

I believe telling women/men to avoid getting drunk by themselves as avoiding the problem, not solving it.

 

 

 





#1 Amb-ass-ador

o_O.Q on 16 January 2016
Aeolus451 said:
o_O.Q said:

 


the penalty for murder if you are caught is very often death or life time inprisonment and people still do it... what does that tell you?

 

Prisons are better than a 3 star hotels at least in the states. Gee, I wonder why life sentences and death sentences (takes forever to put someone to death) don't disuade criminals.

 

yeah that's a good point i guess but i still don't think harsher punishments stop crimes from happening 

 





Aeolus451 on 16 January 2016
o_O.Q said:
Aeolus451 said:

 

Prisons are better than a 3 star hotels at least in the states. Gee, I wonder why life sentences and death sentences (takes forever to put someone to death) don't disuade criminals.

 

yeah that's a good point i guess but i still don't think harsher punishments stop crimes from happening 

 

 


Surely, harsher punishments won't prevent all crimes from happening but it would stop some before they happened because of the "would be" criminals that sit on the fence called risk & possible punishment versus reward. 

We've advanced leaps and bounds in technology that helps us catch people easily but we've become unrealistically lenient on violent criminals. Prisons that hold violent criminals should be hell on earth at the very least. 



A_C_E on 16 January 2016
o_O.Q said:

male sex hormone generally refers to testosterone 

Which is why I responded with testosterone. You then pointed out that you were talking about the male sex hormone...it was weird. Read back.

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well you keep asserting it without providing anything to back up your case while i have backed up my argument with examples that so far you have not refuted

The only good examples that you have provided have been things that we already agree on, lol. The rest have been redundant questions for things I have already addressed but you can't understand. I think its pretty straight forward to think that there are women who produce 4 times the amount of testosterone than the average woman and that there are men who produce only a 5th of the amount of testosterone than the average man. A quick google search provides you with information pertaining exactly to what I am talking about.

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lol but why don't women instead of becoming women develop into men? you still haven't answered the question... yes i know that you think men and women are pretty much the same but i'm still asking you why the development goes in one direction rather than the other

hhhhahahahhahahahha....thank you for that. "We can't be cousins to chimps because they turned out so different than us, just look at them". This is what religious people say when scientists tell them that our DNA almost perfectly matches that of bonobos or chimps.

Now, you didn't say anything about chimps but my analogy constricts your arguement breathlessly since women progress into women and men progress into men with the same psychological behaviour and almost the same physiology. All this while women and men seem completely different than one another. You don't seem to understand this or even want to. Why is that? Read a book.

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yes yes but your claim is that they are not linked in the way that i have proposed... i'm asking you to back up your assertion

That was in reference to the topic change in which you misrepresented me saying they are simply both linked. All it takes is to read back. You asserted that I was talking about the physiology of people which you then used as an example to support your arguement. But in reality I was talking about the psychology. Just because they are linked does not mean you can just apply my psychology arguement to your physiological one to try to make me look wrong.

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lol but i never said that they were the same, what i said is that both are linked so differences in one also results in differences in the other

meaning that since men and women are different in terms of physique these differences also show clear differences in terms of behavior such as men being more aggressive and stronger due to the effect of having significantly larger quantities of testosterone in their bodies

Well actually no, that's based off incomplete data. Studies show that aggression actually raises with testosterone, not because of it. I wouldn't assume that since testosterone has physical effects and mental as well that testosterone connects the two. Evolutionary biology claims that the aggression is useful in survival and procreation, but nowhere in studies would it say that all people with testosterone are aggressive. Just because testosterone is there doesn't mean that the body uses it as much. But just because the body doesn't use it as much doesn't necessarily mean that the brain won't feel the effects of testosterone. So if physiology and psychology were linked like you say they are then wouldn't all people with large levels of testosterone (almost all men) automatically be aggressive since it's the brain that controls the chemical release? Wouldn't that make the video right?

So yeah, I think this is more of a random outcome than a rule. Testosterone will support larger muscles and aggressive behavior but that does not link physiology and psychology. Just because fire has an effect on paper and plactic doesn't mean that paper and plastic are linked.


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Emperorbach on 16 January 2016
A_C_E said:
Azuren said:

In the context of this video, all men are made out to be assholes or rapists. Not a single positive example of a man is listed, and instead only examples of shitty people are listed. 

By my definition, yes, all feminists think men are rapists. However, there are women's rights activists who for some reason identify as feminist despite the stigma it carries. I refer to them as activists, since there are many people nowadays who just don't take feminists seriously. It makes them seem less like a whiny, incorrect first world brat and more like someone who is worried about their standing in their world. 

In other words you have your own agenda against something protruding your emotional standing towards feminism. Because I can't possibly understand why you would think all feminists assume men are rapists...

exactly , he's been asinine about the whole issue

feminism is a modern term 

a woman's activist is pretty much a feminist for the most part

its like saying an ancient wrestler isn't a wrestler because there was no term such as wrestling term  , if there feminism was a word then most of women's activists would identify

WHAT AZUREN IS DOING IS MIXING UP A MISANDRYST ( MAN HATER ) AND FEMINIST 

SOME mysandrats disguise themselves as 

MALALA IS A FEMINIST

CHIMAMANDA ADOICHE IS A FEMINIST

EMMA WATSON IS FEMINIST 

THEY ARE NOT MAN HATING WOMEN WHO THINK ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS

he's are just being delibrately intelletually ignorant due to hsi emotional bias 

 





Naufraguito on 16 January 2016

One second, you all, wich have the horrible word "feminazi" on your usual vocabulary, are so offended by a video that shows the dangers and injustices that girls and women could face during her lives?

You that compares the feminism that unconfort you, with the exterminium of millions of people, a genocide. You are putting yourselves on the shoes of people that were basically kidnapped from their homes, jailed, and finally executed. You that put the feminist on the shoes of the executors,

YOU are offended because you believe that video is an unfair generalization?

On my country Spain, in the old Europe, the conservative press publishes articles calling ugly and whores the women on a certain party, some days ago were a huge scandal because a congresswoman take her nursling baby to the congress, and 5 women was already killed by her husbands THIS YEAR, and we are 16th of January.

And you believe that this video is offensive. I can't...



Tim and The Princes...

o_O.Q on 16 January 2016
Aeolus451 said:
o_O.Q said:

 

yeah that's a good point i guess but i still don't think harsher punishments stop crimes from happening 

 

 


Surely, harsher punishments won't prevent all crimes from happening but it would stop some before they happened because of the "would be" criminals that sit on the fence called risk & possible punishment versus reward. 

We've advanced leaps and bounds in technology that helps us catch people easily but we've become unrealistically lenient on violent criminals. Prisons that hold violent criminals should be hell on earth at the very least. 

 


is there any real study that indicates this to be the case though?

i've heard for a long time now that crime rates have been dropping significantly over the years and this has been in conjunction with punishments becoming less harsh 

i have no real data on this but its something to consider



o_O.Q on 16 January 2016
A_C_E said:
o_O.Q said:

male sex hormone generally refers to testosterone 

Which is why I responded with testosterone. You then pointed out that you were talking about the male sex hormone...it was weird. Read back.

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well you keep asserting it without providing anything to back up your case while i have backed up my argument with examples that so far you have not refuted

The only good examples that you have provided have been things that we already agree on, lol. The rest have been redundant questions for things I have already addressed but you can't understand. I think its pretty straight forward to think that there are women who produce 4 times the amount of testosterone than the average woman and that there are men who produce only a 5th of the amount of testosterone than the average man. A quick google search provides you with information pertaining exactly to what I am talking about.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lol but why don't women instead of becoming women develop into men? you still haven't answered the question... yes i know that you think men and women are pretty much the same but i'm still asking you why the development goes in one direction rather than the other

hhhhahahahhahahahha....thank you for that. "We can't be cousins to chimps because they turned out so different than us, just look at them". This is what religious people say when scientists tell them that our DNA almost perfectly matches that of bonobos or chimps.

Now, you didn't say anything about chimps but my analogy constricts your arguement breathlessly since women progress into women and men progress into men with the same psychological behaviour and almost the same physiology. All this while women and men seem completely different than one another. You don't seem to understand this or even want to. Why is that? Read a book.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes yes but your claim is that they are not linked in the way that i have proposed... i'm asking you to back up your assertion

That was in reference to the topic change in which you misrepresented me saying they are simply both linked. All it takes is to read back. You asserted that I was talking about the physiology of people which you then used as an example to support your arguement. But in reality I was talking about the psychology. Just because they are linked does not mean you can just apply my psychology arguement to your physiological one to try to make me look wrong.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lol but i never said that they were the same, what i said is that both are linked so differences in one also results in differences in the other

meaning that since men and women are different in terms of physique these differences also show clear differences in terms of behavior such as men being more aggressive and stronger due to the effect of having significantly larger quantities of testosterone in their bodies

Well actually no, that's based off incomplete data. Studies show that aggression actually raises with testosterone, not because of it. I wouldn't assume that since testosterone has physical effects and mental as well that testosterone connects the two. Evolutionary biology claims that the aggression is useful in survival and procreation, but nowhere in studies would it say that all people with testosterone are aggressive. Just because testosterone is there doesn't mean that the body uses it as much. But just because the body doesn't use it as much doesn't necessarily mean that the brain won't feel the effects of testosterone. So if physiology and psychology were linked like you say they are then wouldn't all people with large levels of testosterone (almost all men) automatically be aggressive since it's the brain that controls the chemical release? Wouldn't that make the video right?

So yeah, I think this is more of a random outcome than a rule. Testosterone will support larger muscles and aggressive behavior but that does not link physiology and psychology. Just because fire has an effect on paper and plactic doesn't mean that paper and plastic are linked.

 

"Which is why I responded with testosterone. You then pointed out that you were talking about the male sex hormone"

"male sex hormone generally refers to testosterone"

 

"agree on, lol. The rest have been redundant questions for things I have already addressed but you can't understand. I think its pretty straight forward to think that there are women who produce 4 times the amount of testosterone than the average woman and that there are men who produce only a 5th of the amount of testosterone than the average man. "


its not it completely defies what we actually see in reality which is why i'm asking for an actual case where this has been shown

 

"This is what religious people say when scientists tell them"

 

well your beliefs actually seem very religious to me and completely defy science... which is what amuses me about many atheists they go around bashing theists for supposedly irrational beliefs while they themselves believe in a lot of ridiculous horseshit and they somehow don't see how they are similar to theists in that way

i must tell you that its the funnist thing in the world to see this for what it is

 

"We can't be cousins to chimps because they turned out so different than us, just look at them""

 

do you think that i'm saying that women are a different species to men? if you don't what was the point of posting this?

 

"Now, you didn't say anything about chimps but my analogy constricts your arguement breathlessly since women progress into women and men progress into men"

 

you still haven't answered my question which is why does the progression to one or the other occur?

 

" All this while women and men seem completely different than one another."

 

ah yes absolute thinking either something must be the same or completely different... there can be no shades of grey where there are both differences and similarities

good lord what are they teaching you in school these days?

 

"You asserted that I was talking about the physiology of people which you then used as an example to support your arguement. But in reality I was talking about the psychology. "

 

can you quote this?

 

". Studies show that aggression actually raises with testosterone, not because of it."

 

i agree correlation is not causation but where is your disproof that it is actually testosterone that impacts aggression?

 

" So if physiology and psychology were linked like you say they are then wouldn't all people with large levels of testosterone (almost all men) automatically be aggressive since it's the brain that controls the chemical release?"

 

you keep asking questions that to me are so obvious that i'm wondering what kind of life experience you have

 

lets say we have two guys one who is very muscular and another who is small and skinny... who are you more likely to pick a fight with and why?

 

"owhere in studies would it say that all people with testosterone are aggressive"

 

well obviously since it is impossible to test all people with high testosterone

 

" Wouldn't that make the video right?"

 

actually the video is right to some degree since men are indeed more predatory with regards to sexual activity because men have higher sex drives and society places the burden of initiating sexual contact on men generally

 my problem with the video is that its intended to guilt and shame men for actions they in most cases have never even imagined committing... to ultimately put them in a mindset like what you appear to have right now

 

" Testosterone will support larger muscles and aggressive behavior but that does not link physiology and psychology."

 

you are contradicting yourself within this very sentence lol 



Aeolus451 on 16 January 2016
o_O.Q said:
Aeolus451 said:

 


Surely, harsher punishments won't prevent all crimes from happening but it would stop some before they happened because of the "would be" criminals that sit on the fence called risk & possible punishment versus reward. 

We've advanced leaps and bounds in technology that helps us catch people easily but we've become unrealistically lenient on violent criminals. Prisons that hold violent criminals should be hell on earth at the very least. 

 


is there any real study that indicates this to be the case though?

i've heard for a long time now that crime rates have been dropping significantly over the years and this has been in conjunction with punishments becoming less harsh 

i have no real data on this but its something to consider

Well, my comparisons are between now and times when no studies were done. I tried to find any study that's reliable on this and haven't found one. Also, how would you know if it actually prevented a crime versus a person just doing it anyway? Its not like a criminal would just be honest about it. There's other ways to look at it. 

If we lowered the punishments for breaking traffic laws, would traffic violations increase or decrease?  If punishments for breaking laws weren't really detering people, why bother with the law/rule or the punishment for breaking 'em? Why have prisons or police?  

The whole point of punishments for breaking laws is to deter the masses or anyone that's thinking about it but it doesn't stop all crime. 

It's basically impossible to even do a trial run of what I want in the country that I live in. Shit would have to hit the fan for them to consider it.