By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - It's November 21st 2016. The NX is out and more powerful than the PS4. Are 3rd parties on board?

 

3rd party multiplats

Support the NX 224 41.87%
 
Ignore the NX 311 58.13%
 
Total:535
zorg1000 said:
oniyide said:

Ok that makes more sense. But IMHO i dont think thats the way it works, these companies dont have infinite resources and money they are always going to go for the platform that game could sell the most on or do best on and it just seems to be Sony this gen, hell it hasnt been Ninty since SNES. whether a JRPG does better on Wii U than a shooter is irrelevant if it can do even better somewhere else.

True, but so what? big western publishers dont have to there are a bunch of indies that do it, bunch of platformers release on the new HD twins no one really cares if its released by a big publisher or not. Didnt MS make that Ori game? Sony just put out Tearaway unfolded, Ubi Rayman. They exist but to say only Ninty is doing them is wrong.



 

I think ur misunderstanding, I'm not saying developers should dump a ton of resources into Nintendo, just that when they do decide to develop a game for Nintendo, they should take demographic and genres that do well into account.

This. If 3rd parties think they can win the Nintendo crowd with the same games as the rest, they are misreading the market.





You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

Around the Network

Of Course will have Support.

If is easy to Port i dont see a Reason for dont make games for NX, if their Sales Predictions are Right (they have those predictions for a Reason), in less than 2 Years NX, will Surpass Xbox One's Sales, and in 6 Months will have Nearly Half the sales of Xbox One, and if 1-2 Millions of Sales already is Enought to Port the games for PC, Also will be Profitable to port games for the Nintendo NX.

Also Need to Remember that Nintendo NX, will Last more than the time that is Left for the Next Playstation 5, and Xbox Two, Came out, so the Third Party Companies need to make a Ground on Nintendo, otherwise they will not be able to Back with the Suport for Nintendo's Consoles.

If they never Release their games on a Nintendo's Console, how they Expect to have a Fan-Base ?.



Wyrdness said:
midrange said:

Wonderful 101 is first party, but it was worked on by a third party company. Third party support is not limited to third party ip. The fact that platinum put a lot of work into wonderful 101 only for it to bomb is idiotic. Almost anything platinum makes is niche, so you can't say that it failed because it was niche. Likewise, the game had virtually no marketing. How are other third party devs supposed to collaborate with Nintendo if Nintendo doesn't put their part in as a publisher to market the game.

 

Lego city didn't sell that well despite reaching a million (reason for the 3ds port), and zombiu was confirmed to have bombed (just because zombi bombed everywhere else doesn't mean zombi u did well). Those two games were designed as exclusives and performed poorly to the point of needing ports to recover costs.

 

Rayman legends is the game that hurts your case the most.

Rayman was publicly said by ubisoft to have performed poorly, regardless of how it did compared to everything else. 

Rayman was the ultimate third party game for Nintendo - age appropriate, designed as an exclusive, utilizes the gamepad, known IP, devoid of bugs. The fact that this game lost to the ps4 port (no tablet support, different audience, lower install base) is utterly laughable. This game should have dominated on the wii u, and it didn't. What the excuse now?

 

likewise, you didn't addres need for speed or deus ex. Both well made ports that ... Surprise surprise ... Bombed.

Nintendo should have put in way more effort to have made these games successes. What third party company would want to work with a platform where well made games are sent to die?

Again I'm going to tell go back and read the post otherwise move on because your post is only coming across as daft and desperately trying to jump in, I flat out mentioned the userbase aren't going to cling to late ports, games that aren't well handled or poor practices by third parties, NFS, DE are late ports, COD and AC weren't handled well and Rayman was sent to die being delayed from March to September a month when GTA was released and close to when SM3DW's release this only further backs my stance. To further highlight how out of touch your post here is Rayman stopped being a big seller ages ago yet the Wii U version outsold the 360 and X1 versions but trust you to be selective on that point especially as it's near enough sold the same amount as the PS3 version with only the PS4 version outselling it so don't give me any nonsense on that.

W101 is as niche as an action game can get if you don't see that then kindly jog on, it's the most technical action game out there with a high skill barrier that requires people to improve their skill, all of this in an unorthadorx approach to the genre. Funny thing is it has outsold other action titles like DMC4:SE, NG and so on on other platforms but again we know you'll avoid that particular point. ZombiU's sales are at 950k retail far from a bomb meanwhile the other versions barely even register, Ubisoft said they lost money and that's their own fault because they scrapped the game from it's original concept and started it again sorry this is you twisting information a sign of desperation, you want to stay clear of the other versions in an argument because it proves what I'm saying on bad handling from third parties leads to bad results.

The 3DS version of LCS is a separate game which shoots down that whole argument before it even takes off which is hilarious.

I did read you're comments. You asked why Nintendo should strive to help third party companies if they don't try. I responded by saying third party companies do try but even then, Nintendo doesn't try (and also gave examples). Apparently I was wrong to do so because not agreeing with you makes me come off as "desperate." 

you can't just find a "flaw" to every single third party game. for you, a game is either "late" or "niche" or "missing content." These flaws are present in all third party everywhere but only the wii u is suffering major third party issues.

the issue, they don't properly support third party games (regardless of the quality of games)



midrange said:

I did read you're comments. You asked why Nintendo should strive to help third party companies if they don't try. I responded by saying third party companies do try but even then, Nintendo doesn't try (and also gave examples). Apparently I was wrong to do so because not agreeing with you makes me come off as "desperate." 

you can't just find a "flaw" to every single third party game. for you, a game is either "late" or "niche" or "missing content." These flaws are present in all third party everywhere but only the wii u is suffering major third party issues.

the issue, they don't properly support third party games (regardless of the quality of games)

 


You didn't read the post then because most of the questions you asked were already answered, the post flat out explained that for one the's an issue with the demographic being different from what third parties deal with which also touched on market approach, third party effort was only part of the post which both you and that other guy only focused on with out reading the rest of the post. The third party titles Nintendo had a hand in did better then all the others combined and I don't care for your "but but 1m isn't..." talk either. If these games are your idea of effort then you have low low standards, it's not nitpicking these are significant flaws in the handling of the games that sent a negative message to the userbase, ZombiU highlighted the same result happens with other userbases when the same wayward handling is apparent.

I already highlighted why you came across as desperate if you didn't read the prior posts properly that's not my concern or problem because as that post highlighted the issue with the demographic, market approach and third party effort combined is something that no matter how hard Nintendo pushes it won't change a thing. This means that the demographic has to change where they not only buy the type of mainstream games third parties put out but by them with in the first few weeks and every year or the market approach of these third parties has to change were they drop the AAA approach and be more efficient.

Third party effort can always improve but as I mentioned in the post you didn't read properly they have to go all in like they do with other userbases and fully commit if they want positive results, the demographic here are never going to fall for half assed attempts at testing the waters they catch on to that quickly. Nintendo won't support these third parties as a result of all of the above because the's a lot that's out of their hands and will instead stick to second party deals because that way the developer is fully commited then and tbh a unified library and second party deals is the most beneficial approach for them.



midrange said:
Thunderbird77 said:

W101 isn't third party, need for speed was 6 months late, deus ex was late and released for $50 on wii u at the same time it was rereleased on ps360 for $30. The other games you listed sold very well.

edit: looks like someone else already said just that. Still valid.



Third party support is not limited to third party ip.

a port coming late should not be an excuse for poor sales. Next gen versions of GTA, last of us, and Destiny sold very well on next gen despite being "late"

The other games listed did not sell well. Rayman and zombiu sold poorly (source: Ubisoft). That was the whole reason for the ports to other consoles.



Marketing and overratedness caused that. Check how late ports of small/medium franchises sell. Check other late ports the ps4 and x1 got, you'll see plenty in the 200-300k range, from games that sold 1-2 million on ps360.





Around the Network
Thunderbird77 said:
midrange said:

Third party support is not limited to third party ip.

a port coming late should not be an excuse for poor sales. Next gen versions of GTA, last of us, and Destiny sold very well on next gen despite being "late"

The other games listed did not sell well. Rayman and zombiu sold poorly (source: Ubisoft). That was the whole reason for the ports to other consoles.



Marketing and overratedness caused that. Check how late ports of small/medium franchises sell. Check other late ports the ps4 and x1 got, you'll see plenty in the 200-300k range, from games that sold 1-2 million on ps360.



 

but the fact remains there is still a good number of late ports on PS4 and X1 that did well. Where for Wii U they all did pretty terrible.



Soundwave said:

To some degree Nintendo's always going to have demographic issues when it comes to third party content, because all of the major third party content that's significant and that even "Nintendo fans" clamour for ("aw c'mon Ubi Soft don't give us this mini-game shit, we want the big franchises!") tend to be violent action games or sports games.

And this is a problem because Nintendo's family friendly/kids image and the way in which they make their hardware and market it is usually for kids-first (not kids-only, but definitely family-first/kids first).

And that alienates the audience base for these types of games, hence Nintendo has problems selling to this demographic.

Even on the Wii where they had a massive userbase, the "non-family" Nintendo titles like Metroid Prime 3, Xenoblade, Sin & Punishment, The Last Story, (and now Bayonetta 2 on the Wii U) ... none of these games really sold any better than they would have on the GameCube. Probably less actually.

How you solve this problem I'm not sure, Nintendo has problems here, hardware is definitely one huge issue, but demographics are another.

They have not had a huge hit that wasn't a family-centric franchise since GoldenEye in 1997. After the N64-era they allowed themselves to be cornered into that "kids console" stereotype more easily and backed away from a lot of the good initiatives NOA had going in the 90s. 

Yeah, if Nintendo is going to continue to pigeon-hole themselves into a kid-friendly niche (when kids don't want to play kid-friendly games) and continue to have their hardware sales decline as a result then they might as well be 3rd party developers because they'll end up cornering themselves into a SEGA situation where their only audience left will be die-hard Nintendo fans.  It's one of the things that frustrates me so much about NOA in particular because they do next to nothing to push any of their non-kid friendly titles and basically throw them out there to die with the exception of Metroid because NOJ would probably fire people for trying to do that.  It's gotten especially worse since the Wii-era because NOA probably thought they could just depend on their newly found casual market along with the the kids market in the west but that blew up in their face.  I just hope that the failure of the Wii U, the exodus of the casual crowd and the declining sales of the 3DS has finally made them get it through their heads that they have to make a sincere effort to diversify their library -- in both genre and age demographics -- and to finally attempt to make a couple of games that try to appeal to the west first instead of their Japan-first mentality they typically have.  I'm not talking about throwing one or two T or M-rated titles out there and calling it a day like they do every gen -- they have to do their best to come out with a genuine hit IP that appeals to grown-ups and to try more than once before saying 'screw it' and going back to making Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and Kirby spin-offs like they do every gen. 

And for godsake, I hope that their next non-kid friendly game isn't a niche title that they know won't have universal appeal like Eternal Darkness, Geist, Hotel Dusk,  Sin and Punishment or a Fatal Frame sequel.  Hell, for all the praise the Prime games get, even that series is somewhat niche.



maybe ignored until the numbers pass 20 million probably. hahah

for me i have to buy every nintendo thing cuz im a zelda fan and probably the biggest one ever. even went to the zelda symphony. so whatever whenever i buy for zelda. so far my wii U didnt get a new zelda yet. :(



Thunderbird77 said:
potato_hamster said:

Ubisoft and Activision lost millions of dollars as a result of these ports. Why would they bother even putting in the effort of making these games and losing millions if they didn't legitimately think they had a shot of at least breaking even? Do you think these companies enjoy throwing away millions of dollars? Not try? How about they decided that it was better to not spend good money over bad. I highly doubt a bigger, much more expensive push in marketing, features, price point etc. would have led to sales that would have gotten that added money back.



Source? None? I thought so.



Well I'm just curious how much you think making that game for Wii U cost. I guarantee the development budget alone, based on my experience developing console video games, was at least 2-3 million dollars. (For example, I was once part of a team of 20-25 who ported a PS3 game to the Vita, we had 12 months to do the port, and our contract to the publisher was 2.4 million dolllars). That's not counting marketing, certification with Nintendo, printing and shipping the games etc. These things cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions depending on how much these publishers are willing to be spend. But let's be consertative. Let's say that Assassin's Creed 3 and Black Ops 2 total expense for their publishers was only $3 million.

Assassin's creed III and Black Ops 2 only sold 350,000, and publishers make, on average about $18 - $25 per copy solid. Which means at maximum $1 million income based on sales for the publishers of these games.

... What's 1,000,000 - 3,000,000?

Ohh. Ohh right. That would be millions of dollars in losses.



potato_hamster said:

Assassin's creed III and Black Ops 2 only sold 350,000, and publishers make, on average about $18 - $25 per copy solid. Which means at maximum $1 million income based on sales for the publishers of these games.

... What's 1,000,000 - 3,000,000?

Ohh. Ohh right. That would be millions of dollars in losses.

350,000 x $18 = 6.3 million dollar