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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo president: Nintendo NX is in steady development, no rush into market

RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

If they do, fine. I would make that model very much like a PC and very easy to port PC games to. Make it cheap and simple to port. 

If they don't want to, so what? 

That's the advantage of a multi-tiered hardware philosophy, you're not stuck up shit creek if one model isn't selling as well as the other one. Apple doesn't give a crap if you buy an iPad or an iPhone or an iPod Touch ... as long as you buy one you can access their app ecosystem and they make money. 

The home console market is what it is, denying it and wishing it was something else isn't going to change that either, or making consoles for the tastes of Japanese housewives isn't helping them much either. 

No one is asking for a niche console that only has 1/10th the content of every other standard. Would you want a cable box that had 1/10th the channels? Or internet service that only let you access 1/10th of the internet? Then why is this supposed to be an attractive proposition to someone looking to invest in a video game platform?

The game market actually really didn't change -- Nintendo did. The NES offered the widest breadth of content and had something for everyone even if you didn't give a crap about Mario or Zelda. They are the ones that have turned themselves into the Sega Master System of the console business ... the niche platform with a limited roster of a few nice 1st party games that are supposed to be enough to convince everyone that they should buy into that platform.  

I don't think a tiered system works for the console market. In the past different SKUs meant that the cheaper model was perceived as gimped and people didn't want to miss out, so the effective price of the system was the one of the fully featured SKU. Certain things work (like XL models for handhelds or different HDD sizes for home consoles; differences that are self-evident for consumers), but the idea of a pro console is doomed to failure. Improbable that it would see sustained developer support due to its small target demographic and therefore low installed base.

If said cable box had all the channels that I want and is significantly cheaper than other cable boxes, then sure, I would go with that one. It's not necessary to have all of the content. Sony is without Nintendo games for over 20 years now and they managed to be successful regardless. You may say that Nintendo has a smaller amount of games (and you are right), but which publisher's games have the biggest pull when it comes to selling systems? Easily Nintendo's. It's not an unrealistic idea that Nintendo content alone could keep a platform afloat. Nintendo and Sega aren't in the same league, a quick look at historic software sales data makes that clear.

That's because Sony makes basically the modern NES. The Playstation is really nothing but the natural evolution of the NES concept just taken into account the natural growth of demographics (ie: people who were kids with the NES were going to want to keep playing as they got older). 

You may be happy with limited choice, but most people are not, if everyone was like you Nintendo wouldn't have any issues, but that isn't how things work. The "savings" Nintendo provides are rather immaterial too, if I'm buying a product I intend to use for 5 years+, then saving $50 or even $100 works out to a whopping $1.67 savings per month over 5 years (at $100 less). Once people are invested in the idea of getting a console you may as get the one that gives you the best variety of games. 



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RolStoppable said:

If said cable box had all the channels that I want and is significantly cheaper than other cable boxes, then sure, I would go with that one. 

 

Yep, hence why everybody wants them to switch to an a la carte setup where u can pick and choose the channels u want instead of paying for 100+ channels that u don't watch.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

That's because Sony makes basically the modern NES. The Playstation is really nothing but the natural evolution of the NES concept just taken into account the natural growth of demographics (ie: people who were kids with the NES were going to want to keep playing as they got older). 

You may be happy with limited choice, but most people are not. If you were everyone in the market, Nintendo wouldn't have any issues, but that isn't how things work. 

Eh, Sony is just a pawn of third parties, that's why they are helpless when it comes to the erosion of their installed base in their home market. Even if they wanted to, they couldn't do anything about it. This inability to make a move is what creates a big opening for Nintendo to sell their own products; in Japan anyway, but such openings exist in the rest of the world as well. Like zorg said, various demographics are underserved. If Nintendo removes the hardcore stench from their current systems, they'll have a good setup to sell to those demographics because a lot of their games already transcend gender and age.

What erosion?

100 mill (PS1), 150 mill (PS2), 85-90 million (PS3 projected), 100-150 mill (PS4 projected finish)

Seems to me Sony is far and away the most consistent and steady hardware manufacturer the business has seen, far moreso than "first party giants" Nintendo and Sega. You're letting your bias against them get in the way of giving them deserved credit, they simply took Nintendo's formula behind the NES and SNES and then watched Nintendo self-implode onto itself by voluntarily accepting a niche position. 

I would agree casuals are an untapped audience if we were speaking in 2006. Problem is we're not in 2006. We're in 2016. And contrary to what you think this is a huge difference. 

Casual demographics are NOT underserved. If anything they are the most overserved segment of the industry today. There are more games made for casuals today than any other demographic. There is even more marketing to this audience than any other ... I see more game app commercials than Nintendo + Sony + XBox combined these days, seen that Arnold Schwarzenneger apps commercial like 50 times it feels like this past month alone. "Download for free on the App Store" IS the biggest slogan in the game business today.

This notion that casuals are in need of rescusing from Sony and MS' brutish hard-to-use shooter boxes and Nintendo (and *only* Nintendo) can be the white knight that finally gives them games they can understand and play is incredibly out of touch from the reality. These people have hundreds of different games being throw in their face for free. 



Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:

 

I think it is more likely that they will try to bridge the gap and make games designed to appeal to both sides.

 

They need to just give this a rest. Casual gamers are casual for a reason, they don't want to sit around playing hours and hours of games, this is not even appealling to them. 

Make games for set audiences, the industry has grown and evolved past this, people have different tastes. Stop trying to argue against them. 

The industry isn't something that needs a savior that Nintendo needs to swoop in rescue, more people play games today than in the 80s/90s/or 2000s on a daily basis and are happy to do so because they have specific hardware options that meet their specific needs. And that's a *good* thing. 

 

Nobody has to sit and play for hours on end, I refuse to believe that the market of millions upon millions of people who enjoyed sitting down and playing light hearted, simple games together as a family or group of friends just vanished.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
RolStoppable said:

If said cable box had all the channels that I want and is significantly cheaper than other cable boxes, then sure, I would go with that one. 

 

Yep, hence why everybody wants them to switch to an a la carte setup where u can pick and choose the channels u want instead of paying for 100+ channels that u don't watch.

 

In either case that isn't the model Nintendo offers. Nintendo offers just a few kinds of content. "Ala carte" implies choice, Nintendo doesn't offer chioce, no one wants that if it means no sports (where's Madden? where's FIFA? where's NBA 2K?), or the mainstream shows/programs of the day (like it or not ... GTA, COD, Destiny, etc. etc. Can I choose any of these on Wii U? 3DS?). 

People don't just buy a platform for *themselves* either, what happens when you have 2-4 friends over? How many grown 25-35 years olds are happy playing just Mario Kart? What if I'm not a console warrior robot and happen to like different games, like maybe I do like Mario Kart, but maybe I also like GTA and COD and some Madden too? Then the position I'm put in is I either buy two systems (which a lot of people don't want to do). 

The proposition that Nintendo offers of an extremely limited library largely revolving around the same 4-5 mascot properties is more like having a cable service that charges you 75% of everyone else but only gives you access to Nickeldeon, Disney, and maybe ABC Family if you're lucky and nothing else. 



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RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:
RolStoppable said:

Eh, Sony is just a pawn of third parties, that's why they are helpless when it comes to the erosion of their installed base in their home market. Even if they wanted to, they couldn't do anything about it. This inability to make a move is what creates a big opening for Nintendo to sell their own products; in Japan anyway, but such openings exist in the rest of the world as well. Like zorg said, various demographics are underserved. If Nintendo removes the hardcore stench from their current systems, they'll have a good setup to sell to those demographics because a lot of their games already transcend gender and age.

What erosion?

100 mill (PS1), 150 mill (PS2), 85-90 million (PS3 projected), 100-150 mill (PS4 projected finish)

Seems to me Sony is far and away the most consistent and steady hardware manufacturer the business has seen, far moreso than "first party giants" Nintendo and Sega. You're letting your bias against them get in the way of giving them deserved credit, they simply took Nintendo's formula behind the NES and SNES and then watched Nintendo self-implode onto itself by voluntarily accepting a niche position. 

I would agree casuals are an untapped audience if we were speaking in 2006. Problem is we're not in 2006. We're in 2016. And contrary to what you think this is a huge difference. 

Casual demographics are NOT underserved. If anything they are the most overserved segment of the industry today. There are more games made for casuals today than any other demographic. There is even more marketing to this audience than any other ... I see more game app commercials than Nintendo + Sony + XBox combined these days, seen that Arnold Schwarzenneger apps commercial like 50 times it feels like this past month alone. "Download for free on the App Store" IS the biggest slogan in the game business today.

This notion that casuals are in need of rescusing from Sony and MS' brutish hard-to-use shooter boxes and Nintendo (and *only* Nintendo) can be the white knight that finally gives them games they can understand and play is incredibly out of touch from the reality. These people have hundreds of different games being throw in their face for free. 

Not the first time today that someone doesn't care to read my posts. If I keep things short and something like this happens, why should I bother?

I shouldn't.

I directly responded to your point that casual demographics are somehow underserved. They're not. And you know it. There is no underserved gaming audience sincerely except maybe sex gaming, and we know Nintendo will never go there, but someone is likely going to make a lot of money from that at some point. 

If Nintendo is obsessed with finding the next blue ocean ... well there it is. No one said it had be a kid friendly blue ocean. 





zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:

 

They need to just give this a rest. Casual gamers are casual for a reason, they don't want to sit around playing hours and hours of games, this is not even appealling to them. 

Make games for set audiences, the industry has grown and evolved past this, people have different tastes. Stop trying to argue against them. 

The industry isn't something that needs a savior that Nintendo needs to swoop in rescue, more people play games today than in the 80s/90s/or 2000s on a daily basis and are happy to do so because they have specific hardware options that meet their specific needs. And that's a *good* thing. 

 

Nobody has to sit and play for hours on end, I refuse to believe that the market of millions upon millions of people who enjoyed sitting down and playing light hearted, simple games together as a family or group of friends just vanished.

 

They didn't vanish. As a matter of fact they probably play more today than ever before, because of a very convienant, free option they have today. 

The problem that you have with this is it's not Nintendo playing white knight rescuing these people. They don't need rescuing, Apple and Google already beat Nintendo to the punch. 

Nintendo honestly blew it with this audience. They haven't a true new mass-market break out casual hit game since when? Wii Fit in 2008? This is eight years ago now. Wii Music was a dud and so was Nintendo Land, neither or these became big hits, and Wii Fit and Sports basically fizzled out by the time the Wii U rolled around. 

Some of these kids playing smartphone games today weren't even born when Wii Fit came out. Nintendo has done dick all since then, several huge casual/family gaming phenomenons have been birthed since then -- Angry Birds, Clash of Clans, Words With Friends, Plants VS. Zombies, Candy Crush, etc. etc. it's just none of these are made by Nintendo. Also do you notice something here? All/most of the smartphone blockbusters ARE light-hearted, fun, often times cartoony games. The smartphone market is dominated by cartoony/friendly looking games, not realistic graphic type hits. 

There's been more new original IP of the casual/friendly nature birthed in the last 5 years than maybe in any point in gaming history. I take it the rub then really is the sour grapes that it's not Nintendo the one that's doing it. But that doesn't make any difference to the 40 year old soccer mom who's having a blast with Candy Crush. 



Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:

 

Nobody has to sit and play for hours on end, I refuse to believe that the market of millions upon millions of people who enjoyed sitting down and playing light hearted, simple games together as a family or group of friends just vanished.

 

They didn't vanish. As a matter of fact they probably play more today than ever before, because of a very convienant, free option they have today. 

The problem that you have with this is it's not Nintendo playing white knight rescuing these people. They don't need rescuing, Apple and Google already beat Nintendo to the punch. 

Nintendo honestly blew it with this audience. They haven't a true new mass-market break out casual hit game since when? Wii Fit in 2008? This is eight years ago now. Wii Music was a dud and so was Nintendo Land, neither or these became big hits, and Wii Fit and Sports basically fizzled out by the time the Wii U rolled around. 

Some of these kids playing smartphone games today weren't even born when Wii Fit came out. Nintendo has done dick all since then, several huge casual/family gaming phenomenons have been birthed since then -- Angry Birds, Clash of Clans, Words With Friends, Plants VS. Zombies, Candy Crush, etc. etc. it's just none of these are made by Nintendo. Also do you notice something here? All/most of the smartphone blockbusters ARE light-hearted, fun, often times cartoony games. The smartphone market is dominated by cartoony/friendly looking games, not realistic graphic type hits. 

There's been more new original IP of the casual/friendly nature birthed in the last 5 years than maybe in any point in gaming history. I take it the rub then really is the sour grapes that it's not Nintendo the one that's doing it. But that doesn't make any difference to the 40 year old soccer mom who's having a blast with Candy Crush. 

 

Playing a game on ur phone, by yourself, when out of the house is not at all the same thing that I said, which was playing together in a group setting. Two absolutely different types of experiences and ever since the decline of Wii no company at all has tried to push this type of play style in a meaningful way.

Ur just speaking with extreme hyperbole, nobody has said anything about rescuing people from mobile. The point is that there are entire demographics and play styles that don't get supported on consoles, it doesn't specifically have to be Nintendo that decides to try capturing this audience but since nobody else is even making an attempt that leaves a potential opening for Nintendo to act on.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:

 

They didn't vanish. As a matter of fact they probably play more today than ever before, because of a very convienant, free option they have today. 

The problem that you have with this is it's not Nintendo playing white knight rescuing these people. They don't need rescuing, Apple and Google already beat Nintendo to the punch. 

Nintendo honestly blew it with this audience. They haven't a true new mass-market break out casual hit game since when? Wii Fit in 2008? This is eight years ago now. Wii Music was a dud and so was Nintendo Land, neither or these became big hits, and Wii Fit and Sports basically fizzled out by the time the Wii U rolled around. 

Some of these kids playing smartphone games today weren't even born when Wii Fit came out. Nintendo has done dick all since then, several huge casual/family gaming phenomenons have been birthed since then -- Angry Birds, Clash of Clans, Words With Friends, Plants VS. Zombies, Candy Crush, etc. etc. it's just none of these are made by Nintendo. Also do you notice something here? All/most of the smartphone blockbusters ARE light-hearted, fun, often times cartoony games. The smartphone market is dominated by cartoony/friendly looking games, not realistic graphic type hits. 

There's been more new original IP of the casual/friendly nature birthed in the last 5 years than maybe in any point in gaming history. I take it the rub then really is the sour grapes that it's not Nintendo the one that's doing it. But that doesn't make any difference to the 40 year old soccer mom who's having a blast with Candy Crush. 

 

Playing a game on ur phone, by yourself, when out of the house is not at all the same thing that I said, which was playing together in a group setting. Two absolutely different types of experiences and ever since the decline of Wii no company at all has tried to push this type of play style in a meaningful way.

Ur just speaking with extreme hyperbole, nobody has said anything about rescuing people from mobile. The point is that there are entire demographics and play styles that don't get supported on consoles, it doesn't specifically have to be Nintendo that decides to try capturing this audience but since nobody else is even making an attempt that leaves a potential opening for Nintendo to act on.

 

If you watch kids play on tablets they play in a very social way, they all gather around the tablet usually, so it does in a lot of ways create a social play experience.

So you want a console that encourages "group play" experiences .... ummm .... WII U? What's wrong with the Wii U? *Nothing*. It has many, many wonderful family-play games that encourage people to gather around the TV and play together. Nintendo Land. NSMBU. Mario Kart 8. Mario 3D World. Wii Party U. Just Dance. Wii Fit U. Wii Sports Club. Game & Wario. Mario & Sonic Olympics. Wooly Yoshi. Smash Brothers. Mario Party 10. Even inflation wise right now it's price is basically the same as the $250 that the Wii sold millions and millions on. 

The problem is not with the console not having these types of games. It has many (maaaany) fun, easy to play, "gather around the TV" experiences. 

The problem I think is you are limited in the types of game experiences you can provide in this setting (usually mini-game-a-thons), to the point where after the 100th game in that style ... the formula gets a bit stale and people get bored by it. That and the games are not free, nor is the Wii or Wii U ecosystem as vibrant/constantly changing/adding new content like smart devices constantly do. So this type of gaming was always going to be vulnerable to having its lunch money stolen by the next big fish (mobile games). 

To be honest though if they want to go the "cheap console" route ... then why not just do the hybrid machine approach? You could get a chipset equal to or slgihtly better than the Wii U in a mobile form factor today, slap a cheap but decent 1280x720 display on that, and now you have one single device instead of forcing people to buy two seperate devices they don't want (most Nintendo fans do not buy the console, opting for just the handheld alone 4:1). 

So why does there even have to be a console if all Nintendo wants is cheaper, low-end graphics. Mobile has advanced to the point where it can do visuals of that quality fairly cheaply. A Wii U + 3DS = $450-$500, a hybrid could cost $250 and do the same thing as both devices. 

The next Nintendo portable should have very good 3D graphics capabilities, so much so that it can run any Nintendo franchise, even the Xenoblades and the mainline Zeldas of the world, it's no longer the "kid brother" device that can't handle 1/2 of the "big gun" Nintendo IP. That's also been a problem for Nintendo ... why buy the console when the portable scratches the itch for Nintendo games for many people. This was always going to be more and more of a problem as the graphics in the portable got progressively better. Before you could say "well you can't have a real 3D Mario or Smash Brothers on a Nintendo portable" but that's not true anymore. 



zorg1000 said:
RolStoppable said:
Nintendo isn't going to raise a wall between casual and hardcore gaming.

 

I think it is more likely that they will try to bridge the gap and make games designed to appeal to both sides.

 

That's basically what they attempted with the Wii U and its hardware design though; it didn't work out so well. I think it's a fairly bad idea to chase both markets in one product or setup. If the NX is indeed two consoles in one, they would be better off tailoring each unit to specific demographics and markets. The "one size fits all" marketing ploy is something only John Lucas sees as possible and it has never succeeded, not hugely at any rate.
Look at the iPhone, for instance, massively popular with more casual consumers but almost universally shunned by tech fanatics, Volkswagen Golf sells million to more casual drivers while it doesn't really appeal to those who want more excitement in their cars.
You can modify both the iPhone and Golf by offering a range of models with different specs, made so to appeal to customers with different preferences, but the products at their core, and their basic appeal, will still apply mostly to one specific overall group in the vast majority of cases.

If you chase two rabbits, you'll lose them both. This is exactly what happened with the Wii U and it could be seen coming from a mile off. Let's hope they don't repeat their mistakes and aim properly this time instead of attemting mass appeal and hardcore appeal all at once with one product.