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Forums - Politics Discussion - Virginia School District closes over Islam worksheet

 

Would you get angry if your child received this?

Yes! It is making my child submit to Islam! 77 42.78%
 
No, it is simply teaching... 62 34.44%
 
Who cares? Honestly. No need to be butthurt. 41 22.78%
 
Total:180
SpokenTruth said:
AnthonyW86 said:

You guy's do realize that the assignment consisted of the writing of one sentence in caligraphy: "there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger".

Seriously why the hell would you let someone write such a sentence as an assignment? Why not someyhing like "have a nice day".

Maybe the teacher doesn't know how to write "have a nice day".  This was not an asignment the teacher created.  It was part of the pre-existing curriculum and they were learning about lots of religions.

In this modern age of technology, the teacher should have understood what he/she was assigning. That quote could have very well been profanity and they wouldn't know. However, the creator of the assignment  and the person who approved the assignment are the ones who are completely at fault.





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Esiar said:
JWeinCom said:
Esiar said:
JWeinCom said:

Of course, it seems that there would be no reason for an eternal god to make laws that were temporary in the first place.  

I don't see how this makes sense (although I see your point in the rest of the post).

For example, if there is some kind of problem, a temporary law could be passed so the problem doesn't get worse, and the law would not apply once the situation is better.

I'm not saying that exact wording necessarily applies to Christianity, but it's just an example showing that an eternal God (or anyone in a position of power, really) could pass an temporary law.

In certain situations, god does give specific commands (For example in Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys), but the mosaic laws are not situational.  The mosaic laws are god saying "this is the way you should live your lives".  So if this is what you *should* be doing in the eyes of an omniscient, perfect, omnipotent, and unchanging god, then this should not change at all.

You're comparing an eternal god to anyone else in a position of power, and that doesn't really work.  Like, in America we have a malleable constitution, and set of laws.  Slavery for example, was considered legal and moral by a majority in early America.  However, since we are not infallible, omniscient, or unchanging, it makes sense for us to change over time as new information emerges, new arguments are formed, and society in general progresses towards being more empathetic and smarter.  On the contrary, if god says slavery is ok (which he totally does in Leviticus), then there should be no reason that it should not be ok later.  Since god is omniscient, no argument could have changed his mind, and he could not receive any new information.  If there was some wacky circumstance that made slavery necessary, he could have instantly rectified it because omnipotent.  It is impossible that he was wrong on the issue because he is infallible. His morals by definition could not have changed. So, while humans can and should change laws, god should not have to.

I don't think slavery is a good example there. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that slavery is wrong, and it's even treated as a normal thing in the New Testament, including complete obedience to the master (Which I'm not saying that I'm fully comfortable with that). The point I was making, is how the Old Testament states that you should not eat things like pork (Deuteronomy 14:8), while in the New Testament it's fine (1 Corinthians 10:27-33), which is an example of a temporal law in the Bible.

But I do understand your point on saying that God should not need to change any laws, I just think that you're misunderstanding the situation. It says in Colossians 2:16-17 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Basically, some of the laws found in the Old Testament were made to be a shadow of what God's plan was. But they are no longer needed because the body casting the shadow has already come. 

I used slavery as an example because it is something that was, as you said, allowed and endorsed in the bible, but is something that we agree pretty much universally is a bad thing.  So, if you hold to the belief that god makes temporary laws,  you'd have to explain why these laws, including slavery, were in any way moral at any point in history.  

I don't think I'm misunderstanding the situation.  I get the explanation of Christ coming and taking sin on himself etc.  However, I don't think this is an adequete explanation.  Christ coming would not explain why in the old testament, murder, slavery, and rape were endorsed.  Nor does it explain the fact that the sabbath was so important that the punishment for disobeying it was murder, yet post-jesus it is not important.  I mean, that one was in the ten commandments.  One of the ten most important things, and suddenly not important.  Or why god suddenly doesn't care about shrimp and pigs being dirty anymore, etc etc etc.

To me, saying it's a shadow of god's plan is kind of a non-answer, just a step above "god works in mysterious ways".  Basically, it just says things change when jesus comes, but it doesn't do much to explain why they did, why the rules before Jesus were so utterly barbaric (although the new ones are probably even worse), what the logic behind these changes are, why god needed to sacrifice himself to himself to make those changes, and so on.  

To me it's kind of like comic book storylines.  They are logically consistent within their own continuity according to the rules of those particular universes.  But, when you try to judge them by the laws of physics and logic that exist in reality, they stop making sense.



To be fair, they shouldn't be teaching any sort of religion in any school. That should be left up to family, friends and if the individual wants to learn about it.



Aeolus451 said:

To be fair, they shouldn't be teaching any sort of religion in any school. That should be left up to family, friends and if the individual wants to learn about it.

 

I think most of us have concluded to that.

 

However, I don't see how making threats and whining will help. It truly won't.

 

The parents in this situation should ashamed for how childish they are. And the teachers should learn to not overlook something as big as that



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

Wii need a revived Inquisition with teeth and the proper insturments. And more classes to teach everyone the blessed Rhytm method.



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Aeolus451 said:

To be fair, they shouldn't be teaching any sort of religion in any school. That should be left up to family, friends and if the individual wants to learn about it.

 


Why not? Religion has played a huge part in the history of mankind so it definitely makes sense to learn about it in school. As long as teachers don't try to convert people I fail to see the problem.



forest-spirit said:
Aeolus451 said:

To be fair, they shouldn't be teaching any sort of religion in any school. That should be left up to family, friends and if the individual wants to learn about it.

 


Why not? Religion has played a huge part in the history of mankind so it definitely makes sense to learn about it in school. As long as teachers don't try to convert people I fail to see the problem.

There's too many religions. I guess you don't realize how many religions there are. School is supposed to give people a general education like math, reading and writing. It's also when people are the most impressionable and their heads can be filled with just about anything. Religion is a personal belief and it's an opinion that's based on nothing but the believer's word. That sort of belief shouldn't be pushed onto others but just remain personal.  You think that's a good idea to teach at school? 

Things like religion should be taught by parents or close friends because it's very difficult for a christian to teach others about islam and remain objective about it. It's the same scenario with any other religion. It's not the place of a school to parent a child.

Religion has probably caused more wars than anything else in human history. It's even held back the advancement of civilisation and technology.  What is that main reason why the western world doesn't get along with the middle east? Why does the middle east constantly fight itself?



hershel_layton said:
asqarkabab said:

Yeah thats right 

There are many isis wannabes between the refugees and they use the islamic lie the taqiya but most of the refugees are peaceful and kind



 

I think people such as Faux News supporters use taqiyya way too often as an example. I'm quite sure that not EVERYTHING a Muslims says will be dishonest. I mean, really. I think the real problem that is killing people in America is...well, America! America is currently a mess. People are divided, the government is doing stupid things...It seems crazy.

 

Also, if people in America cared SO MUCH about preventing terrorism and violent acts, then I don't see why they still support Israel. Think about it.

 

An American will tell you that ISIS is evil. If you tell them they have god with them, they'll say that isn't a good reason to commit the actions they are doing. However, tell an American Israel is evil, and they'll deny it. For some reason, god's existence is fine to support Israel, but not ISIS.

 

I am not defending ISIS in any way. In fact, I am against both the Islamic state and Israel. They both illegally settle into land owned by people, they kill innocent civilians, have no sensitivity for people outside of their group, and have their existence rely on god.

 

 

I know people will disagree with me, but I cannot take people seriously if they're against ISIS, but support Israel(and vice versa). I've visited Israel and areas with ISIS-like ways enough times to realize they're both dangerous.

 

That comparison is completely and utterly inapt.  I don't always agree with the actions of Israel, but to compare them with ISIS is silly and kind of offensive.  Let's compare...

In the past 15 years or so, about 10,000 Palestinians have been killed in the conflict with Israel (this includes enemy combatants and civilians, but does not include citizens in countries such as Lebanon).  In the  past year or so,  ISIS has killed an estimated 10,000 people.  So about 15x the rate.

Muslims, atheists, Christians, and other religions are allowed to serve in the knesset (Israel's parliament).  ISIS kills, rapes, and enslaves members of other religions, and even muslims if they're not the right kind of muslim. 

Israel has no histoy of keeping underage sex slaves.  They have no history of auctioning women as sex slaves. ISIS does.

Israel has not encouraged Jews in other countries to go out into the world and kill people at random to promote global jewhad.  ISIS has encouraged muslims across the world to go out and kill at random to support global jihad.

Israel has no intentions of spreading their religion throughout the world through means of violence.  ISIS makes this an expressed purpose.

Israel has no intention of enforcing barbaric religious laws on people within its borders or without.  ISIS wants the world to be governed by barbaric religious rule.

Israel does not have an apocolyptic agenda centered on creating conflict during the east and west.  ISIS does.  

Israel has produced noble prize winners in the fields of  Medicine,  Chemistry,  Economics,  Physics,  Literature, and has made invaluable contributions in medicine, technology, and so on.  ISIS has not.  

 

 

 

Here's the too long didn't read version.  Israel has taken many actions I disagree with (most notably their actions in Lebanon where the whole nation was held accountable for PLO combatants within their borders, and plan D in the 1948 Arab Israeli War), but most of what they do is geared towards providing for their citizens. Aside from a conflict with Palestine, they are generally at peace with the world at the moment, and are valuable contributors to the global community.  Almost all of what ISIS does is geared towards conquest and spreading war.  To equate them is utterly ridiculous, and it is perfectly rational to support one and not the other.

If you still disagree answer the following questions.

1.  If you are a muslim (and if not imagine you are) would you rather live in Tel Aviv, or ISIS controlled regions of Syria?

2.  If you are a christian (and if not imagine you are) would you rather live in Jerusalem, or ISIS controlled regions of Iraq?

3.  If you had a daughter would you rather hear them say "I am moving to Israel and serving in the Israeli army as is mandated by law", or "I am going to join ISIS and serve as the bride of one of their soldiers"?

4.  If you could choose one group to have access to nuclear arms, would you prefer the Israeli government or ISIS? (I'm guessing you wouldn't want either, but choose one.)

5.  If ISIS had access to the manpower and technology Israel has, what do you think the region would look like?  The world?

Assuming your responses to these questions are reasonable then the difference between the two should become abundandtly clear.



Aeolus451 said:
forest-spirit said:
Aeolus451 said:

To be fair, they shouldn't be teaching any sort of religion in any school. That should be left up to family, friends and if the individual wants to learn about it.

 


Why not? Religion has played a huge part in the history of mankind so it definitely makes sense to learn about it in school. As long as teachers don't try to convert people I fail to see the problem.

There's too many religions. I guess you don't realize how many religions there are. School is supposed to give people a general education like math, reading and writing. It's also when people are the most impressionable and their heads can be filled with just about anything. Religion is a personal belief and it's an opinion that's based on nothing but the believer's word. That sort of belief shouldn't be pushed onto others but just remain personal.  You think that's a good idea to teach at school? 

Things like religion should be taught by parents or close friends because it's very difficult for a christian to teach others about islam and remain objective about it. It's the same scenario with any other religion. It's not the place of a school to parent a child.

Religion has probably caused more wars than anything else in human history. It's even held back the advancement of civilisation and technology.  What is that main reason why the western world doesn't get along with the middle east? Why does the middle east constantly fight itself?

One of the things schools also should teach you is history.  And if you don't know about religion, you don't know shit about history, and your knowledge on literature and sociology is probably weak too.  It is not only a good idea to teach about religion (not teach religion) at school, but it is an absolute necessity to creating an intelligent and well informed electorate.  With Trump support where it is, I'm certain we need more education about religion, not less.

If you're saying that religion causes more wars than anything else in human history (I wouldn't... I'd say land and resources are #1 by a large margin. Religion may be a distant third, but nationalism would rival it), then don't you think that's something really important to teach people about?  If for no other reason than to try and avoid the mistakes that have been made in the past?





JWeinCom said:
hershel_layton said:


I think people such as Faux News supporters use taqiyya way too often as an example. I'm quite sure that not EVERYTHING a Muslims says will be dishonest. I mean, really. I think the real problem that is killing people in America is...well, America! America is currently a mess. People are divided, the government is doing stupid things...It seems crazy.


Also, if people in America cared SO MUCH about preventing terrorism and violent acts, then I don't see why they still support Israel. Think about it.


An American will tell you that ISIS is evil. If you tell them they have god with them, they'll say that isn't a good reason to commit the actions they are doing. However, tell an American Israel is evil, and they'll deny it. For some reason, god's existence is fine to support Israel, but not ISIS.


I am not defending ISIS in any way. In fact, I am against both the Islamic state and Israel. They both illegally settle into land owned by people, they kill innocent civilians, have no sensitivity for people outside of their group, and have their existence rely on god.



I know people will disagree with me, but I cannot take people seriously if they're against ISIS, but support Israel(and vice versa). I've visited Israel and areas with ISIS-like ways enough times to realize they're both dangerous.

 

That comparison is completely and utterly inapt.  I don't always agree with the actions of Israel, but to compare them with ISIS is silly and kind of offensive.  Let's compare...

In the past 15 years or so, about 10,000 Palestinians have been killed in the conflict with Israel (this includes enemy combatants and civilians, but does not include citizens in countries such as Lebanon).  In the  past year or so,  ISIS has killed an estimated 10,000 people.  So about 15x the rate.

Muslims, atheists, Christians, and other religions are allowed to serve in the knesset (Israel's parliament).  ISIS kills, rapes, and enslaves members of other religions, and even muslims if they're not the right kind of muslim. 

Israel has no histoy of keeping underage sex slaves.  They have no history of auctioning women as sex slaves. ISIS does.

Israel has not encouraged Jews in other countries to go out into the world and kill people at random to promote global jewhad.  ISIS has encouraged muslims across the world to go out and kill at random to support global jihad.

Israel has no intentions of spreading their religion throughout the world through means of violence.  ISIS makes this an expressed purpose.

Israel has no intention of enforcing barbaric religious laws on people within its borders or without.  ISIS wants the world to be governed by barbaric religious rule.

Israel does not have an apocolyptic agenda centered on creating conflict during the east and west.  ISIS does.  

Israel has produced noble prize winners in the fields of  Medicine,  Chemistry,  Economics,  Physics,  Literature, and has made invaluable contributions in medicine, technology, and so on.  ISIS has not.  

 

 

 

Here's the too long didn't read version.  Israel has taken many actions I disagree with (most notably their actions in Lebanon where the whole nation was held accountable for PLO combatants within their borders, and plan D in the 1948 Arab Israeli War), but most of what they do is geared towards providing for their citizens. Aside from a conflict with Palestine, they are generally at peace with the world at the moment, and are valuable contributors to the global community.  Almost all of what ISIS does is geared towards conquest and spreading war.  To equate them is utterly ridiculous, and it is perfectly rational to support one and not the other.

If you still disagree answer the following questions.

1.  If you are a muslim (and if not imagine you are) would you rather live in Tel Aviv, or ISIS controlled regions of Syria?

2.  If you are a christian (and if not imagine you are) would you rather live in Jerusalem, or ISIS controlled regions of Iraq?

3.  If you had a daughter would you rather hear them say "I am moving to Israel and serving in the Israeli army as is mandated by law", or "I am going to join ISIS and serve as the bride of one of their soldiers"?

4.  If you could choose one group to have access to nuclear arms, would you prefer the Israeli government or ISIS? (I'm guessing you wouldn't want either, but choose one.)

5.  If ISIS had access to the manpower and technology Israel has, what do you think the region would look like?  The world?

Assuming your responses to these questions are reasonable then the difference between the two should become abundandtly clear.

 

"Also, if people in America cared SO MUCH about preventing terrorism and violent acts, then I don't see why they still support Israel. Think about it.


An American will tell you that ISIS is evil. If you tell them they have god with them, they'll say that isn't a good reason to commit the actions they are doing. However, tell an American Israel is evil, and they'll deny it. For some reason, god's existence is fine to support Israel, but not ISIS.


I am not defending ISIS in any way. In fact, I am against both the Islamic state and Israel. They both illegally settle into land owned by people, they kill innocent civilians, have no sensitivity for people outside of their group, and have their existence rely on god."

 

Look, I'm not a one-sided liberal or conservative. I'm not going to cherrypick facts to support my ideas. 

 

Israel has done good things. Yes. They truly have. However, the way they treat Palestinians is quite uncomfortable. And by Palestinian, I don't mean Muslim. many Palestinians aren't Muslims.

 

1. The high-temperature climate for both bother me quite a lot. However, I know your point. I'd prefer Tel Aviv. Much more developed.

2. Hard to say. My god are the authorities in Jerusalem irritating. I recall one of the policemen threatening to use physical force because my sister took a picture of the area(and part of him was in it).  Oh, and just to let you know, many Christians are Palestinian. Churches and Mosques are usually close by, and violence is rare(besides the occassional knucklehead or two).

3. I'd prefer for my daughter to not be some slave for a creepy old man. I'd also not want her to serve for any army. I do not like patriotism. Wars are usually unnecessary and can be solved in much smarter ways.

4. Two wrongs wouldn't make a right. If either one has access, we're all dead. Maybe ISIS- there'll probably be an idiot who'll accidentally blow their own group up ;)

5. I don't think they'd ever be capable. They're hated by all types of people, even Muslims. Also, people think ISIS are some god-like brutal force. However, they never faced America. America can easily wipe out ISIS(however, it seems as though they don't want to).

 

 

 

I guess the comparison wasn't a good one. Perhaps I should simply explain:

 

Israel is developed. Their region is amazing. They have a lot of technology, and much of their economy is stable. There aren't that many poor people. However, it disturbs me when they commit violent actions. I cannot tolerate at all. This summer I was able to visit the place and see if the media was honest about the whole situation. 

 

Of course, the media is one-sided. Either 100% israel or 100% palestine. While I managed to analyze many terrible things Palestine does, I realized Israel has a contribution to the wreckage of Palestine(especially in the West Bank). I decided to live in the West Bank during my time, and I encountered a violent situation with Israel's army.

 

There were about 20 soldiers who stormed into the city, and they started to throw tear gas, throw bombs, and shoot rubber bullets. fortunately, one of the people pushed me away and helped me avoid a bomb one of the soldiers threw. I saw a couple of the Palestinians throwing rocks, but I didn't want to stay. Didn't want to risk anything. I ran back to the area I stayed at. However, one of the soldiers threw a tear gas bomb at me. I can tell you the effects stayed for a few hours.

 

After the whole madness, I decided to see why the hell the whole thing happened. Apparently it was because they were looking for some 13 year old scrub to arrest. They decided to arrest him by going to his house.

 

I don't know honestly. That and Israel's incidents of bombing houses, murdering people and whatnot makes me be against them. Even though they have so much meaning in the world of science, it's hard for me to accept them when they violate basic human rights. Sure, Palestine isn't the best place in the world, but I just think much of the media hides Israel's violence.

 

If you'd like a situation on the news, google/yahoo/etc. the name "Muhammad Abu Khdeir". He was some Palestinian kid kidnapped by soldiers. He was forced to drink gasoline and burned alive. To make it worse, his cousin from America(whom I've met) was beaten up by Israeli soldiers as well. 

Eh, just all of this violence sucks...know what I mean? i don't make an exception for any country.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.