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Forums - Movies & TV - The Force Awakens sucks! *MAJOR SPOILERS*

The Fury said:
d21lewis said:

That's why I said "at the time".  Somewhere along the way, he had to learn of Vader and told Luke " He's more machine than man".

Do you think Ghost Obi-Wan haunted Vader for a bit? For the lols?

 


You know he did!



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amp316 said:
Scoobes said:
amp316 said:

I see many people claiming that the other six movies are full of plot holes, things that don't make sense, and inconsistencies. Feel free to point them out since I really haven't seen anyone do so.

OK, in Ep IV:

Vader tortures Leia but even being incredibly powerful in the Force, at no point figures out that she's his daughter. Luke and Leia figure this out on their own even with limited/no training.

Leia has her entire planet, family and friends, but all she effectively does is direct a glare at Vader and is later calmly relaxing in her cell by the time Luke and Han break in to save her. Either she's a robot or this is just poor writing/directing/acting.

Luke and Leia are supposed to be kept secret, yet they simply give Luke to Anakin's family and keep the same surname? You don't need the Force to figure that one out.

At the end of the film, the Death Star has to orbit a planet to get into position to destroy the moon the rebel base is in giving the rebels time to get in and destroy the infamous space station. A planet, eh? And a Death Star is designed to do what exactly?

There's a simple reason why Vader doesn't realize that Leia isn't his daughter.  It's because regardless of what Lucas wants anyone to believe, he thought that Star Wars was going to be a one time deal.  It was like an old Buck Rodgers or Flash Gordon serial that you were entering in the middle.  Thus Episode IV.  I'm pretty sure that he didn't know that Leia was Darth's daughter at that point.

Leia shows sadness and panic when Tarkin says that he is going to blow up Alderaan.  After the deed is done, she shows her resolve by not cracking.  In other words, Carrie Fisher is a pretty bad actress.  Always has been.

Once again.  See paragraph one.

You got me there.  That was  pretty stupid.  

All that being said; many of the problems in Episode IV occur after watching the next two installments.  The reason being, that they weren't intended in the first place.

Was it perfect?  No.  But I couldn't pick apart and destroy it like I (and many others in this thread) have with Episode VII.



I don't think any of that is an excuse. Lucas knew he was making sequels and would have known he was putting a whole bunch of plot holes when he made the next two films. The whole of the original trilogy can be picked apart and destroyed and far worse than anything anyone has said about Force Awakens.

For Empire and Return:

http://movieplotholes.com/star-wars-the-empire-strikes-back.html

http://www.movieplotholes.com/star-wars-return-of-the-jedi.html

There's quite an exhaustive list. The Force Awakens is really not that bad when you put it into perspective.



Sharpryno said:

Never seen episode 2 3 4 5 6. Just the first of the new ones. Hated it.

This Star Wars however was great. I read all the plot summaries of the past ones and watched recap videos. But I had a great time at the theaters and it was the first movie I saw multiple times since Avatar.

Imagine if episode 4 was out in the day of the internet. It would get bashed to hell. The scene with Obi Wan fighting Vader while Luke escapes with Han was just a joke. Terrible lightsaber battle, just lets himself dies and his body disappears. People have too much nostalgia and don't understand how poor the old movies are in today's standards.  (saw this part when roommate was catching up on them)

That's a shame, especially given that you only watched what most consider the weakest of the movies (in close competition with episode 2). I rewatched all six movies recently, and the original trilogy still holds up quite well. Episode 4 is the weakest of the trilogy in my opinion, but it is still a very good movie in its own right. Yes, the scene between Obi Wan and Vader is one of the weakest bits of action in the entire Star Wars franchise, but you're missing out if you enjoyed Force Awakens, yet refuse to watch the original trilogy (or Revenge of the Sith, for that matter, which is a decent movie in its own right).

Do people have too much nostalgia attached to the original trilogy? I don't think so. As a whole, these movies are still pretty damn good, ESPECIALLY Empire Strikes Back, which remains the best movie in the franchise. Do they have too much nostalgia for episode 4? Probably. The acting is hoakie, and a lot of the elements of the narrative and special effects that were so novel and innovative at the time won't seem nearly as great or groundbreaking now, but it still remains a good movie that is well worth watching. Even if Luke is kinda whiney and insufferable.

 

 





True story. I told my co-workers what I thought of TFA when I saw it. Out of the blue, one of them came up to me yesterday and said, "You were right. Star Wars did suck!"



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amp316 said:
True story. I told my co-workers what I thought of TFA when I saw it. Out of the blue, one of them came up to me yesterday and said, "You were right. Star Wars did suck!"

What an achievement!



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I thought TFA was a pretty decent movie! Maybe those who were disappointed by it should lower their expectations for Episode VIII, just saying.



                
       ---Member of the official Squeezol Fanclub---

In my opinion, The Force Awakens is an awesome Star Wars movie. I'm looking forward to the rest of the sequel trilogy and the anthology Star Wars movies.



93% on Rotten Tomatoes does say something about the film. Those aren't just Star Wars fan, but movie critics. As I lifelong fan I absolutely loved it and have seen it 4 times. Several other friends have seen it 2-3 times, but I do have 1 friend that was very meh on it and another that thought it was "fine" but wasn't blown away. I can certainly understand someone not liking it, but I definitely think you're in the minority.

I also think it's an awesome set-up to a really great trilogy. Rey's story arc, Kylo Ren's story arc, more Luke. I can't wait!



padib said:
superchunk said:

Excellent SW movie.
There is a lot of story there but you must not be paying attention.

1) it does state who the First Order is, you just didn't pay attention.
2) it does show what planets were destroyed, you just didn't pay attention.
3) Kylo Ren is bad ass force wielder, but not as swordsman. It demonstrated that and the end calls it out specifically. you just didn't pay attention.
4) Similar to original trilogies, there are family backstory details intentionally left unknown, we'll learn exactly who Rey is in a future movie and that is classic SW design. you just didn't pay attention.
5) It did build up the backstory on all new characters... again you just didn't pay attention.

This was a fantastic SW movie.
+1 on fan service
+1 on battles with ships and lasers etc
+1 on fantastically new deaths stars
+1 on giving story info on previous OG characters
+1 on creating diversity in universe without going crazy / annoying
+1 on using models/puppets vs full CGI
+1 on light saber duels... keep in mind Darth Vader (already proven badass) loses to Luke who never had others to square off against in training. Basically, your gripe on Kylo Ren is ridiculous. He is uber-powerful with force, but very limited on real light saber duels.That really died off in prequels as there simply isn't enough around to perfect the art.

This was an excellent SW movie and ep8 is going to be an even bigger experience as it approaches launch. Likely to break all records ep7 just created.

You're being completely inconsistent here.

So Luke wins to Darth in a swordfight despite his lack of swordfight experience because Luke is strong with the force, but Kylo Ren comes to a draw with Rey because he is bad at swordfighting?

If the force is more important than swordfighting skills to determine the winner, why did Kylo struggle against Finn? Why was Rey so strong despite her lack of exposure to her use of the force?

Also, amp is a guy that pays attention, perhaps you didn't pay attention to him.

I'm not. Two different thoughts not intended to be put together.

1) I said Kylo Ren was stong in force as it was apparent from his first scene, yet a weak swordsman as all of his scenes with saber he was simply hack-n-slash.
2) For those that say Kylo Ren was superior with a saber, I stated this is not a new thing in SW as Luke beat Vader. Vader is known to be amazing with a saber and Luke would still be very weak in comparison due to no real training.

I also did not say force was more important than saber skills. What I said is that without a Jedi academy, who would Luke and all the new Jedi have to harness great swordsmanship skills from? While they could continue to learn more and more about the Force through meditation/ghosts of pasts, it would be harder to refine swordsmanship I would think.

As for Kylo Ren's battle with Finn and Rey... ya'll are just too narrow minded and didn't really pay attention to the movie.
1) Kylo Ren was emotionally broken when he killed his father. It was absolutely obvious how mentally unstable he was since he A) found out Rey was, in his own words, very powerful with the force and B) started to see his father again/struggle with light/dark paths renewed.
2) He got shot in the stomach by a VERY powerful weapon. The fact he lived at all says a ton about his capabilities.
3) He didn't struggle with Finn. He immediately put Rey out cold for a short time, then toyed with Finn until he cut Finn down.
4) THEN Rey happened to wake up and get a surprise on Kylo as well as use a bit of force which brought up his fears (something he stated he had of her to Snoke) and by then his injury was getting far worse so he wasn't fighting or thinking well at all. With all of that, Rey still barely got a couple good shots on him and was simply separated by a tremor.
5) He did not lose, he fell down. Its more than likely that he would have overcome her in the long-run.

You all are just a bunch of rosie tinted youth glasses who will never let anything be on par with the orignal trilogy. This was an amazing SW movie. I can't wait for the other four to come. 

I've officially decided this was my 2nd favorite of all.





superchunk said:

I'm not. Two different thoughts not intended to be put together.

1) I said Kylo Ren was stong in force as it was apparent from his first scene, yet a weak swordsman as all of his scenes with saber he was simply hack-n-slash.
2) For those that say Kylo Ren was superior with a saber, I stated this is not a new thing in SW as Luke beat Vader. Vader is known to be amazing with a saber and Luke would still be very weak in comparison due to no real training.

I also did not say force was more important than saber skills. What I said is that without a Jedi academy, who would Luke and all the new Jedi have to harness great swordsmanship skills from? While they could continue to learn more and more about the Force through meditation/ghosts of pasts, it would be harder to refine swordsmanship I would think.

As for Kylo Ren's battle with Finn and Rey... ya'll are just too narrow minded and didn't really pay attention to the movie.
1) Kylo Ren was emotionally broken when he killed his father. It was absolutely obvious how mentally unstable he was since he A) found out Rey was, in his own words, very powerful with the force and B) started to see his father again/struggle with light/dark paths renewed.
2) He got shot in the stomach by a VERY powerful weapon. The fact he lived at all says a ton about his capabilities.
3) He didn't struggle with Finn. He immediately put Rey out cold for a short time, then toyed with Finn until he cut Finn down.
4) THEN Rey happened to wake up and get a surprise on Kylo as well as use a bit of force which brought up his fears (something he stated he had of her to Snoke) and by then his injury was getting far worse so he wasn't fighting or thinking well at all. With all of that, Rey still barely got a couple good shots on him and was simply separated by a tremor.
5) He did not lose, he fell down. Its more than likely that he would have overcome her in the long-run.

You all are just a bunch of rosie tinted youth glasses who will never let anything be on par with the orignal trilogy. This was an amazing SW movie. I can't wait for the other four to come. 

I've officially decided this was my 2nd favorite of all.

I too think this is the 2nd best Star Wars, only Empire beats it. Youre spot on on all your points, I only disagree with 5, Kylo gets struck down and disarmed I consider that losing. Its very easy to deconstruct any movie nitpicking it scene by scene (Movie Sins on youtube do this all the time) but thats not how cinema work, its about the overall emjoyment and how the plot is moving foward as a whole, a movie is not just a colection of scenes its an intricate puzzle of many elements that create an experience. 

Another thing to add, Kylos lightsabers beam is very flickery, I tough that could mean it was badly built but that the most probable was that it was a design choice to make it look cool and all.  On the script that was released however its stated there his lightsaber is kinda badly built and isnt at very stable, another prove Kylo Ren isnt at all that well trained (kinda like Luke wasnt when he build his own saber, he cut a lot of corners making his green one, it isnt a super well put together lightsaber).