Rey knows how to fight, Kylo is also in training and was injured in theyre duel (2x) and emotionaly a mess, he is far from being a Sith Lord, Rey has 20 seconds of supeiority on a duel she was loosing, thats somethign any force user can achiev, outbursts of powers are pretty common actualy, you know who else did this ? Obiwan x Darth Maul, Maul was a Sith Lord and was 100x stronger than Obiwan who was a padawna back them, still he sees his master dying, focus himself, manages to match Mauls speed and power and them manages to outmanouver him and splits him in 2. The Milenium Falcom went trough a bunch of modifications wich Rey aparently was aware of probably even worked on them as she seemed to have some sort of admmiration for that ship (she knew who had stolen it from who, what had happened ot it and where the stuf where on the ship thats pretty clear). But Im wasting my time we had this discussion like 100 times, ppl will only see what they want to see, this movie makes perfect sense withim itself, Rey has prior training on pilloting and combat, uses only basic force moves, defeats a banged up emotionaly messed up Kylo Ren, than goes get some proper training to face Ren who also goes to have some proper training.

And if having a force vision, having TIE fighters and stormptroopers chasing you, getting kidnapped, having someone trie to invade your mind, getting thrown headfirst on a tree and getting knocked out, seing your friend/possible love interest fighting to protect you and getting his spine cut in half doesnt count as trials and tribulations I dont know what does.

Are you the same guy who complained about someone twisting his words earlier?

What i said was that calling the force awakens a garbage movie doesn't give you credibility in discussing movies because it is far from that. You may not like how disney handled the franchise, but you should be able to recognize a competently made movie when you see one if you want to be taken seriously.

But of course it sounds so much better if you take something out of context right?

Yeah...really liked Episode VII...Was it rather similar to Episode IV? Yes. Was it still really awesome and a great setup for the rest of the trilogy? Yes.

The movie isn't perfect. Trashing it like there is no redeeming aspects to it clearly shows there's a "hidden" layer to that hate.

From what I see, it looks like some people admit that if Lucas had done the new movie, a lot of them would have disliked it, because of the way he handled the prequels...

But most people saying they hate it, are quite clear that they would have taken the movie as gospel if it had been made by Lucas, even if everything had been the same.

I...don't think you understand what was going on during the movie.

Rey knows the Falcon really well because it was in her village for a long time and she is quite a handy mechanic. She probably worked on the ship.

They also establish early on that she can fight which is going to help her agility and reflexes no matter what weapon she is using.

She also spends the majority of her fight getting her ass kicked by a grievously wounded Kylo Ren who's own force powers are weakened by him being torn between the dark and the light.

It sounds like you were so busy picking the movie apart that you forgot to actually watch the movie.

Its like trying to discuss the Last of Us with a hater, thats an objectively good game, you can dislike it, wich is perfectly fine, but if you go rate it and you give it like a 1 or a 2 youre obviously insane and dont know what youre talking about.

Ppl seen to have a hard time grasping that differences of opinion may result in you disliking something good and that because you dislike something it doesnt make that something crap. Some stuff are simply objectively well crafted and you liking it or not is subjective.

Quick example, I realy dislike No Country for an Old Man, its not my kind of movie, the story doesnt suit me, yet when I watched that movie I could see why ppl like it so much and why itd win Oscars, and why its objectively good . I could see the acting was superb, the cinematography was great etc. Will I ever watch it again ? Hell no. Is it good ? Ye. Do I like it ? Definetly not. Its relay not that hard to comprehend somethign is good but at the same time its not somethign for your taste. 

Pretty much this sums it all up. I someties feel if this move had a narrator saying stuf like "on this moment we see Kylo Ren is conficlted (pay atention on the actors expression) and he doesnt even see the blaster shot coming from his back, he now has a hole the size of a fist in his gut and is surviving thanks to the dark side of the force, the actor is now gaunt showing that Kylo is having troble walking properly" ppl woudlve understood the movie better, it wouldve sucked for anyone who can actualy interprete stuf and pay atention to the actors expressions and such tough.

I listed some good things about it in the OP.  No hidden agenda.   If you look at the OP, I'm not a big fan of AOTC or TPM.  I just feel that TFA destroyed everything that the force was about, took several shorcuts, had way too many coincidences, pissed all over Han Solo's character, and had way too much fan service for the sake of having fan service.  It's just like a Death Star.  Only bigger.  That pretty much sums up the movie to me.  

In addition to that it is also established in the movie that the force can be used to extract information out of peoples mind. Rey did it before when Kylo was trying to read her. In the last scene he even tells her that he could teach her, reminding her that he has all the knowlegethat she needs to beat him.

She may just have reached out and extracted it from him, possibly even tapping into the dark side, judging from her expression and behavior.

/incomiung wall of text alert....

I've been reading these forums for years, somehow I missed this thread with all the busyness of Christmas. But this will be my first reply/post because quite frankly this review is 0/5 and deserves as many responses as possible.

A New Hope came out nearly 40 years ago and served up just about as much information in its plot as this movie did, yet it was beloved. Who was Darth Vader? What was the empire and the clone wars? What can the force actually do? How big is this "galaxy" and what is the current state of political scene? How does Luke go from a whiny moisture farmer to an elite xwing pilot blowing up the biggest most terrifying weapon in the universe after a few days?

Empire was my favorite movie of the series but all three were great. However, even RTJ was criticized for not being more like the first two. The prequels actually took almost all of the questions left open from the original trilogy and answered them all, except the execution wasn't done well and the movies were criticized for not being like the originals. Now we get a near perfect Star Wars movie and some people just can't be satisfied because all of a sudden being like the originals and not having all the information laid out in front of them is a bad thing.

The Force Awakens is not A New Hope. It borrows similar styles and themes from the first 2 movies to help bring back that Star Wars feel and it did a fantastic job. It also borrows tid bits from the old expanded universe, combines a little of the new expanded universe and leaves many possible doors open as to why certain things happened the way they did, but overall it leaves enough clues as to make a plausible guess.

I just want to address one of the biggest annoyances I hear from both critics and fans. Which was the combat.

Jedi training is not a "set way". In the prequels the Jedi have been using a very specific method which was also partially their downfall. Jedi for thousands of years have learned both on their own and with help. We know absolutely nothing about how Luke may have tried to change that or not following RTJ, but in the expanded universe he abandoned the teacher/padawan method. But one thing did seem pretty clear, and that was Jedi training much like University involves "specialized learning" and "generic learning". Specialized training is fine tuning combat skills, force powers..etc, while generic is diplomacy, caring, life skills..etc. We don't have any idea what level Kylo is at in his training and what was being withheld from him. We also have no solid information about what happened to Rey. She clearly had memories or visions of the Island Luke was on and the new Jedi slaughter. So chances are she has had training as a young-ling but had her mind blocked at some point and was removed from anything that might reignite her past.

What they were showing through most of TFA is that Rey has learned how to survive among the toughest conditions imaginable. She has learned more about survival and fighting to live than most would ever have to. For her picking up a lightsaber is not a lot different than her proven staff combat skills. They are very raw and unrefined, but still powerful and effective. This also appeared to be the same with Kylo except he had more experience, but was still very unrefined.

Watch it a couple of more times. You will see that Finn had weapons combat training as im sure all those Storm Troopers did as evident in his first fight. He had a proper fighting stance and movements, but was bested by clearly a more experienced and angry Trooper with an electrostaff.

Kylo was superior than both Rey and Finn, and had he fought either of them at the beginning of the movie it would have ended very quick. At the end of the movie Kylo had multiple issues. He was steal dealing with having just killed his own father very emotionally and was starting a new transition into the deep dark side, but he also took a bowcaster bolt right into his gut. Something that would have killed anybody else as they intentionally showed multiple times. Kylo was also arrogant though in typical dark side fashion and wanted revenge on Finn for causing so many issues. The fight itself though, was an ass kicking. Kylo wanted to inflict pain and fear and after Finn got the rather lucky shot Ren ended it.

Rey was awakened or as it will probably be shown later "re-awakened" to the force by the saber and Maz. Kylo further inadvertently began unlocking the raw power that Rey has with the force trying to mind swipe. But she is clearly more powerful with the force that she was able to turn it on him. Kylo has the tools at his disposal as well and has used them more, but as he begged for Snokes guidance it was clear he hasn't been given proper training either. His internal conflict has also been preventing him from becoming a true dark force lord. By the time he faced Rey he was emotionally and physically worn down, injured heavily and facing a much more talented fighter who is both powerful in the force and has a proper lightsaber. He still had her on the run the entire time until she focussed and wore him completely down.

There is also great symbolism in the way the ground separated the two, just as there always has been. The Force is everywhere and continually keeps balancing itself. Making sure there is always light and dark to oppose one another in some way.

Just my personal guess. I think in the next movie we will see a much different Kylo Ren emerge from Snokes training. An even more brutal, yet fully refined and focused dark lord. We may also see a Rey who has "NOT" been given the proper training by a still hesitant Luke which will put her farther behind. Luke will be forced to intervene which will set up her training for the third movie showdowns.

...anyhoo lol

I agree with this post.  Society as a whole seems to want everything NOW.  Half the enjoyment for me in the older movies were that you had to wait until the next movie to find out what was going to happen.  It didn't all happen in 2 hours of time!  

I was not a fan of this movie at all!