By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Mozilla CEO blasts Microsoft over Windows 10 defaults

sc94597 said:
Chasesdaddy84 said:
Everything stayed exactly the same except now I'm using the FARRRR superior Windows 10 (over 8.1)

I think that is why. This only affects people who upgrade from Windows 7. 

But even then, see my previous post about how ridiculous this is: 

 

" How I just set firefox to my default within the last minute after updating to Windows 10 on my laptop from  youWindows 7. 
1. Click on firefox icon on my toolbar (took 2 seconds.)
2. Was asked if I wanted to make firefox my default browser (took 1 second to say yes.) 
3. Went to the default settings automatically and switched Edge to Firefox (took 2 seconds.)
Total time spent making firefox my default browser: 5 seconds. 
That was so strenuous and tough to do. I don't know how anybody without the technical expertise that I have could do that. "

Just reading what you have had to deal with is giving me a migraine =/ I'm sorry man. I sure do miss Windows 7 though... 10 is growing on me quickly, though. I just hope they are able to iron out all of these issues some seem to be having. 



Around the Network
Soleron said:

Your conclusion from that graph is that MS doesn't have a monopoly?


This discussion is talking about consumers upgrading their PCs. Microsoft may have a "monopoly" in that subset of the market, but it's hardly indicative of the general population.

The consumer PC market has been on a downward trend over the past few years, and one of the few growth companies in the market is Apple, offering an alternative product to Microsoft. Mac OS, Android, and iOS are all valid and strong competitors against MS in the consumer market.

Where Microsoft still gets a bulk of their business is through the education and enterprise industries. Where this discussion is irrelevant, anyways, as the end-users rarely get any kind of say over the default browser, as it's usually a policy set by the organisation's IT department. And they certainly don't care about a tickbox that comes up during the upgrade process.

---

The truth of the matter is, Microsoft DID have a monopoly in the consumer PC market for many years. And, as a result, progress slowed down for a while.  As much as certain users in the thread would like to thank the EU or the US anti-trust cases for bringing down the MS monopoly, that simply doesn't hold up as true when you look at what actually happened. Ultimately, it was all irrelevant as the market just leap-frogged Microsoft's monopoly and created a whole new world where Microsoft is, frankly, unable to compete effectively.



generic-user-1 said:
Johnw1104 said:
Not a big deal and entirely microsoft's prerogative. If their browser winds up being bad people will still download Firefox/chrome etc, but if it's good and people like it tough cookies.

The latter doesn't seem likely though.

its against EU law for sure, M$ will pay for this like they payed for setting their browser as default before.

Well, the world has changed a bit since 2004. Back then Windows PCs absolutely dominated devices that allowed proper internet access.

With the rise of smart phones and tablets (and Chromebooks and better console browsers) you don't need a PC anymore to use the internet. Windows is still dominating PCs, but it's not dominating internet access anymore.

A new antitrust case against Microsoft for making Edge the standard browser on Windows 10 would be much harder to make when Apple is allowed to make Safari the standard browser on a billion of their devices (Macs, iPhones, iPads) and Samsung is allowed to choose their own standard browser for their Andoid devices (also over a billion) and Google is pushing for Chrome as standard browser on Android (several billion devices):



generic-user-1 said:
sc94597 said:
Soleron said:

Your conclusion from that graph is that MS doesn't have a monopoly?

Only if Nintendo has a monopoly in handheld gaming would I agree that MS has a monopoly. From that graph one can see that 8% of persons choose to use Mac devices for home computing as of April 2014. Hence, one company doesn't solely (nor nearly) provide all operating systems. And that is only if we look at things in terms of marketshare. This says nothing about the number of firms that provide the good of operating systems. 

If we are using the economics definition of monopoly - a market in which only one firm owns a means of production for a good or provides a service - then the picture looks even more different. There are plenty of options, linux distributions, mac os, if we include all computing devices - android, blackberry, ios, etc, etc. Since mobile devices compete with home computers/laptops to an extent, we can't outright ignore them as competition. Especially, since we can always isolate the market of something to find a monopoly as nobody sells the same exact service. 

So yeah, my conclusion is that MS does not have a monopoly. I can always use a Linux distribution or I can purchase a MAC. That by definition precludes Microsoft from monopoly status. 

there are exactly 0 companys that provide a good operating system for private users...

apple is safety scissor of OSs  and windows was created to torture people.

linux is just like firefox free software so it doesnt count.

you dont have to have 100% controll to have enough marketmight to abuse it...

 

and yes, nintendo has a monopoly in the handheld market, but well those are toys, nobody needs em like people need computer...

That is your opinion. Linux is used quite ubiquitously for servers. The internet wouldn't be what it is without Linux. Mac OS has its 9% niche who like it. Everyone else goes with various types of Windows because it is a standard. 

Most people don't need home PCs either. Smartphones and tablets have been replacing them for most purposes. Only people in academic/computing fields need a PC of some kind, and they have a variety of options to choose for their specific purpose. 

Also the issues with monopolies are that they allow prices to rise arbitrary (versus competitive markets where businesses are price-takers.) Considering that Microsoft's software is getting cheaper/free as the years go on, it is evidence that they aren't necessarily enacting the dangers of a monopoly, mostly because they have competition outside the home PC sphere. 



Good i use only chrome



REQUIESCAT IN PACE

I Hate REMASTERS

I Hate PLAYSTATION PLUS

Around the Network
Conina said:
generic-user-1 said:
Johnw1104 said:
Not a big deal and entirely microsoft's prerogative. If their browser winds up being bad people will still download Firefox/chrome etc, but if it's good and people like it tough cookies.

The latter doesn't seem likely though.

its against EU law for sure, M$ will pay for this like they payed for setting their browser as default before.

Well, the world has changed a bit since 2004. Back then Windows PCs absolutely dominated devices that allowed proper internet access.

With the rise of smart phones and tablets (and Chromebooks and better console browsers) you don't need a PC anymore to use the internet. Windows is still dominating PCs, but it's not dominating internet access anymore.

A new antitrust case against Microsoft for making Edge the standard browser on Windows 10 would be much harder to make when Apple is allowed to make Safari the standard browser on a billion of their devices (Macs, iPhones, iPads) and Samsung is allowed to choose their own standard browser for their Andoid devices (also over a billion) and Google is pushing for Chrome as standard browser on Android (several billion devices):


yes, the EU should sue those companys too



sc94597 said:
...

So yeah, my conclusion is that MS does not have a monopoly. I can always use a Linux distribution or I can purchase a MAC. That by definition precludes Microsoft from monopoly status. 

For whether something is or is not a monopoly I look to regulator's interpretations, not textbooks. Microsoft has already been subject to penalties over its effective market control. Intel was also charged with monopoly abuse over CPUs, despite only having 2/3 of the market and with AMD's offerings being a drop-in replacement (Linux and Mac are in no way drop-in replacements for Windows).

For example, I cannot "always" use Linux or Mac because the computer software I require to make a living is not available for them, and the computer hardware I require (high performance 3D graphics cards) do not function correctly on them. The company I work for, and every other company in the area, has a signed exclusivity agreement and blanket license with MS and no one else. Mac/Linux is not an option for any of them. They don't have 100% control, but they have enough control to compel manufacturers to only sell their software on new PCs and for new software, especially commercial/business software, to be only written for their platform.



Soleron said:
sc94597 said:

So yeah, my conclusion is that MS does not have a monopoly. I can always use a Linux distribution or I can purchase a MAC. That by definition precludes Microsoft from monopoly status. 

For whether something is or is not a monopoly I look to regulator's interpretations, not textbooks. Microsoft has already been subject to penalties over its effective market control. Intel was also charged with monopoly abuse over CPUs, despite only having 2/3 of the market and with AMD's offerings being a drop-in replacement (Linux and Mac are in no way drop-in replacements for Windows).

We are still talking about default browsers, aren't we? And in this area Microsoft has no dominating position anymore (they had this position until 2 years ago)... not with the Internet Explorer, not with Edge and not with IE + Edge together. Chrome is now the most popular browser by far.

So I don't see any problems with setting up Microsoft Edge as default browser for Windows 10 (which can be changed with a few clicks by the way).



Soleron said:
sc94597 said:

So yeah, my conclusion is that MS does not have a monopoly. I can always use a Linux distribution or I can purchase a MAC. That by definition precludes Microsoft from monopoly status. 

For whether something is or is not a monopoly I look to regulator's interpretations, not textbooks. Microsoft has already been subject to penalties over its effective market control. Intel was also charged with monopoly abuse over CPUs, despite only having 2/3 of the market and with AMD's offerings being a drop-in replacement (Linux and Mac are in no way drop-in replacements for Windows).

Where do these regulators get their "interpretations?" 

Oligopolies can control markets as well. Microsoft doesn't have to have a monopoly to have market power. 

At the end of the day it gets silly, when a group of a few hundred/thousand people have arbitrary power to define terms and institute de-facto legislation. 

Anti-monopoly laws get especially silly when they are in their "anti-competitive" mode, when regulators punish companies for actually making their products better or their prices lower because it is seen as "anti-competitive" when in fact that is the purpose of competition - so that companies who make their products better get an advantage. 



Conina said:
Soleron said:
sc94597 said:

So yeah, my conclusion is that MS does not have a monopoly. I can always use a Linux distribution or I can purchase a MAC. That by definition precludes Microsoft from monopoly status. 

For whether something is or is not a monopoly I look to regulator's interpretations, not textbooks. Microsoft has already been subject to penalties over its effective market control. Intel was also charged with monopoly abuse over CPUs, despite only having 2/3 of the market and with AMD's offerings being a drop-in replacement (Linux and Mac are in no way drop-in replacements for Windows).

We are still talking about default browsers, aren't we? And in this area Microsoft has no dominating position anymore (they had this position until 2 years ago)... not with the Internet Explorer, not with Edge and not with IE + Edge together. Chrome is now the most popular browser by far.

So I don't see any problems with setting up Microsoft Edge as default browser for Windows 10 (which can be changed with a few clicks by the way).


its not about the browser, its about the OS...

they are abusing their market power in the OS space to push their browser, and thats against anti trust laws...