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Forums - Politics Discussion - Death sentence. Yes or no?

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Normchacho on 25 June 2015
McDonaldsGuy said:
Normchacho said:
McDonaldsGuy said:
What's so sad is that you guys could have a good argument when it comes to innocents and corruption in the system, but you focus on morality and the "prison is worse than death" myths instead. If you're trying to make me feel sorry for a guy who planted a rice cooker bomb in front of an 8 year old kid; or a guy who shot up babies and kids at a theater; or a guy who shot church goers based on race, it isn't going to work. My sympathy is 100% for the victims.

There's only one spree killer I have legit sympathy for and it was this guy named Charles, who was the perpetrator of the Texas school shooting in the 60s. Apparently he had a huge tumor in his head and literally could not control his behavior.

There should be a debate on death penalty reform, not "oh man it's so immoral to painlessly inject a guy who shot up a theater full of people trying to enjoy a Batman movie!"


Tell me where in my argument I said anything about prison being worse than death or said that I held any sympathy for a killer? Please, point out even one example.

My argument is, and has always been, that the death penalty doesn't provide any benefit to society, and because our legal system isn't 100% accurate it cannot be trusted with deciding if someone gets to live or die. I'll also add that I think our Justice system should be above emotional reactions such as revenge.

You don't seem to have much of a case against my argument, so I'm interested to see what you post next.

See I would have liked to focus on the innocents debate, but when you argue it's not beneficial to society it makes me roll my eyes. Why punish anyone then? It's not beneficial to society after all.

You're basically saying the feelings of those who lost a loved one shouldn't matter, and that's the exact type of mentality the killer's had. Just saying.

You are mixing up the death penalty and all punishment. Punishing crime has huge, obvious benefits to society. The death penalty does not, as I pointed out earlier. It's not making us any safer and it's not saving us any money.

Are you...trying to guilt me into conceding? I hope not, because I promise you that won't work.



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sundin13 on 25 June 2015
McDonaldsGuy said:

I just think it's funny that I (originally) said almost everyone prefers life over death, and you dispute you, and then show me a link that pretty much proves my point even better than I could have (cause honestly some of my sources are really outdated or too general). This is why I would rather debate death penalty reform because all the facts are on my side otherwise.

"I said everyone prefers life over death"

fixed



tiffac on 25 June 2015
McDonaldsGuy said:

There was actually a McDonald's shooting in San Diego in the 80s and the shooter's wife actually sued McDonald's claiming it was Mickey D's fault he did it. Not kidding.

I guess the shooter must have been afraid of clowns ._.



Lafiel on 25 June 2015
Lawlight said:
Normchacho said:


Once again, the death penalty is more expensive than life in prison...


No one is going to make me believe that giving someone a shot  (syringe not bullet) is more expensive than feeding paying for someone's food, clothes, hygienic products, etc.. for 30-40 years.

death sentences have to be held to a higher standard than life on parole, that's why everything has to be reviewed much more closely which results in much more court time -> much higher legal fees, usually payed by the tax payer



McDonaldsGuy on 25 June 2015
Lafiel said:
Lawlight said:
Normchacho said:


Once again, the death penalty is more expensive than life in prison...


No one is going to make me believe that giving someone a shot  (syringe not bullet) is more expensive than feeding paying for someone's food, clothes, hygienic products, etc.. for 30-40 years.

death sentences have to be held to a higher standard than life on parole, that's why everything has to be reviewed much more closely which results in much more court time -> much higher legal fees, usually payed by the tax payer

Yeah but the people who get the appeals are the ones who are usually the most guilty.



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Normchacho on 25 June 2015
McDonaldsGuy said:
Normchacho said:

Care to point out where I said anything about the murderers emotions?

Moving back to your first point, you don't need to kill someone to do that. Kidnapping and robbery also fall into the catagory of taking away another persons rights, why aren't we killing robbers?


You know, this is kind of off topic but I've actually always wanted to ask this:

What's wrong with revenge anyway? Don't give me a movie line too ("Revenge will consume you! Dun dun dun!!!"). What's wrong with it? Revenge is a dish best served cold, and Boston gets very, very cold. Revenge is good for the human soul.

In general, or in this context?

In the general sense, revenge is bad because in most cases it doesn't actually make the person seeking it feel better.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pieces-mind/201309/revenge-will-you-feel-better

In the context of the death penalty, it's an emotional response which as I said before, I don't feel has any place in our justice system. It's why when somebody beats you up, and he person who did it gets arrested, they don't kick the shit out of him for his crime.



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johnsobas on 25 June 2015

i just want to hear an argument about how the death sentence has any benefit other than "it's right" and "it makes people feel better." Why should we care what the killer is doing when he is no threat and killing him has no benefit?



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McDonaldsGuy on 25 June 2015
Normchacho said:
McDonaldsGuy said:


You know, this is kind of off topic but I've actually always wanted to ask this:

What's wrong with revenge anyway? Don't give me a movie line too ("Revenge will consume you! Dun dun dun!!!"). What's wrong with it? Revenge is a dish best served cold, and Boston gets very, very cold. Revenge is good for the human soul.

In general, or in this context?

In the general sense, revenge is bad because in most cases it doesn't actually make the person seeking it feel better.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pieces-mind/201309/revenge-will-you-feel-better

In the context of the death penalty, it's an emotional response which as I said before, I don't feel has any place in our justice system. It's why when somebody beats you up, and he person who did it gets arrested, they don't kick the shit out of him for his crime.


True, but murder is on a whole nother level of violence compared to beating someone up.

According to John Locke, there are three natural rights - life, liberty, and property. John Locke stated that, "Whosoever uses force without right, as everyone does in society, who does it without law, puts himself into a state of war with those against whom he uses it, and in that state all former ties are cancelled, [and] all other rights cease, and everyone has a right to defend themselves." (Source: Second Treatise of Government by John Lock)) When someone has committed a murder, that murderer has taken someone's three natural rights and forfeited his own natural rights.

Plus, when you beat someone up you only take away one of their natural rights temporarily if that. On the other hand a murder does. It's the ULTIMATE crime, and deserves the ULTIMATE punishment.

would you rather be beat up or murdered?



McDonaldsGuy on 25 June 2015
johnsobas said:
i just want to hear an argument about how the death sentence has any benefit other than "it's right" and "it makes people feel better." Why should we care what the killer is doing when he is no threat and killing him has no benefit?


Are you Joyce Mitchell by any chance? And have you known anyone who has been murdered?



Aeolus451 on 25 June 2015
Normchacho said:
McDonaldsGuy said:


Yes! Although I don't think rapists should get the death penalty (mainly because it's too much "he said she said").

Children are starving, and anyone who gives money to a serial killer over a starving child is evil imo.

Sweet Jesus what a straw man!

You also conveniently seemed to have forgotten the fact that the death penalty is way way way more expensive than life in prison. You want money to help those kids? Stop putting people to death.


They could just make it cheaper to put people to death. They get one appeal and if that doesn't work out then they're dead.