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Forums - Nintendo - Miyamoto Expains Why Wii U has Failed

JRPGfan said:
BraLoD said:
That's a decent answer, even as it was way more because of the lack of 3rd party.
They focused more then needed on the tablet and didn't grap the need to get a stronger platform, they were really trying to do a Wii 2, but casuals moved to mobile platforms.

I really hope he understands it, because if they go with a Wii 3 and again trying to get the casuals, it'll be very risk.
The Wii sucess was more of a out of the curve thing, it's not easy or wise to hope for it as a base.

Now, if they can they should try to throw two consoles quickly as the Wii U, one 2016 and another 2020.
That way they have a better chance to compete with the others now for a short time and aafter for a long time.

They really should be thinking ahead of the next console already so they can grant 3rd party back.


The casuals where FORCED away by nintendo. They didnt all just up and leave for mobile.

Wii launch price = 249$

Wii U launch price = 299$  / 349$ (depend on delux or not version)

 

The Wii motes (nunchucks) that the casuals loved, where replaced by a gamepad.

This is a point this entire thread that you just don't get, they did not chuck the WiiMotes to the wayside, most of the launch games and most Nintendo games still can use them, the OS can use them, they just didn't advertise that.  What a big suprise since I think lack of advertising is one of the major factors in the Wii U's poor preformance.

EDIT

(Not counting PC) This system is the most flexible system when it comes to first party controllers I have ever seen.  Most of my physical games can use either the gamepad, the pro controller, and then several varients of the WiiMote (WiiMote + nunchuck, WiiMote + classic, just the Wii Mote)



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I think there are more reasons than that, but I'm glad Miyamoto recognized that the system was a pretty big failure... I hope they get it right next time.



 

              

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sc94597 said:
midrange said:

Please don't take my comment as an insult to xenoblade, as I am a huge fan of monolith soft (had the wii version before it was cool :P).

1. as an open world game, xeno x looked good during the transition of generations (2012-2013) but now that we recieved the witcher 3, will receive fallout 4 a month before xeno x, and have Guerilla's Horizon on the horizon (pun intended), I view xeno x as technically "semi-decent" by today's standards set by those games. Of course I do not mean gameplay wise since the game has not come out in the US, but even then, fallout seems to have a more interactable world.

2. In the HD regard, Monolith's effort is truly admirable, but in the end, it is the results that matter the most (unfortunately). The shift to hd gave ps3 developers a lot of flak and pretty much the only way to escape that flak is to produce amazing results on your first attempt (this is way easier to do on the ps4 than the wii u)

3. Again, regardless of the background of each developer, it is the results that matter, and there is no denying that monolith could have made a truly amazing game in a shorter amount of time had they worked on the ps4 than the wii u. Why? Because the ps4 was designed for developers to use and not as an attempt to create a fad.

Monolith does not need to be better than Guerilla games, but it is really telling that they are producing less results than they are, and that I believe is not a matter of their abilities, but more a matter of the hardware they are on

1. The Witcher 3 isn't fully open world . I love the game, but I can't see how the "hub worlds"  which all add up to much less landmass and are far less seameless exceed Xenoblade X's seamless truly open world in all three spatial dimensions. Fallout 4 seems  to be more of the Elders Scrolls/Fallout (Bethesda) formula, probably a bigger and more detailed world than Skyrim - much like Xenoblade X. If Xenoblade X was top-tier three years ago, Fallout 4 isn't going to change that. Elder Scrolls/Fallout(Bethesda) games are sandboxes, Xenoblade Chronicles X is not. So obviously Fallout would have a more interactive world, but that says nothing about the open-world and whether it is seemless and much more about the detail of said world and the interactions that can be had with it. From that perspective Xenoblade X was outpaced by Daggerfall. As for Horizon, we have to see more of it. I was impressed with what we saw, but we have no idea of the size of the world and whether or not transitions will be seameless or my major concern - diverse. Which I think is Xenoblade's best trait, the diversity of its environment. The graphics and art-style of Horizon are very pretty though. 

2. You were talking about the means though (how long it took) rather than the ends. I explained why it took that long. 

3. I'm not buying it. Monolith Soft is having trouble with the budgets of 7th generation level development, so it would make no sense that they'd produce games faster when the graphical and asset quality standards are also higher (1080p and 2k textures, for example.) Sure, if Monolith Soft were creating the same exact game on PS4 they'd have an easier time, but the assumption is made that they need to improve the quality of assets with the addition power. And this of course disregards other aspects of development and planning like story, unique gameplay elements, and so on. It is quite easy to output many games when you've had experience with modern tools and you are using a modern engine (rather than having to build one yourself.) A better comparison would be Square-Enix and Monolith Soft. It took/will take Square-Enix ten years to finish FFXV, while Monolith Soft finished their game in five. Heck, it took Square-Enix ages to make the much less ambitious Final Fantasy XIII and it wasn't like they were encumbered with that one. 

Again, please do not view this as me bashing xenoblade x, as I fear that is how you are taking my comment.

I am solely comparing the outputs of fallout 4, witcher 3, and horizon to xenoblade x given their development times and budgets. It is no surprise that the ps4 games are producing higher quality games than xenoblade (technically as that is all we have to go by seeing as how the games have not yet released). What I am trying to get at is the results produced by each developer seem to be greater and quicker on the ps4 than on the wii u. I truly do think that if Monolith made xeno x on the ps4 over the wii u, it would have come out last year (i.e. quicker). No, they don't have experience make hd games, but having made xenoblade chronicles, making xeno x is certainly going to be easier for them to do so that should balance out.

This all gets to the main point I was trying to raise, that the ps4 was made for developers in mind, and the speed and quality of ps4 games coming out shows this, despite the wii u having amazing devlopers like monolith soft, retro, and the smash team



Nintendo simply needs to go back making peripherals, instead of forcing a gimmickstandard. Make that extra hw an optional purchase (ie gamepad) and reinvest in a properly powered console, so it at least covers your end for third party hw requirement.

But as long as ninty keeps putting pressure on itself to make a gimmicky hit, being different from others with no real vision behind that idea (hi gamepad again) just to avoid direct competition, they will always be at great risk for a major flop.

Not sure if ninty learne their lesson, they might be addicted to that Wii'd high.



midrange said:
sc94597 said:

1. The Witcher 3 isn't fully open world . I love the game, but I can't see how the "hub worlds"  which all add up to much less landmass and are far less seameless exceed Xenoblade X's seamless truly open world in all three spatial dimensions. Fallout 4 seems  to be more of the Elders Scrolls/Fallout (Bethesda) formula, probably a bigger and more detailed world than Skyrim - much like Xenoblade X. If Xenoblade X was top-tier three years ago, Fallout 4 isn't going to change that. Elder Scrolls/Fallout(Bethesda) games are sandboxes, Xenoblade Chronicles X is not. So obviously Fallout would have a more interactive world, but that says nothing about the open-world and whether it is seemless and much more about the detail of said world and the interactions that can be had with it. From that perspective Xenoblade X was outpaced by Daggerfall. As for Horizon, we have to see more of it. I was impressed with what we saw, but we have no idea of the size of the world and whether or not transitions will be seameless or my major concern - diverse. Which I think is Xenoblade's best trait, the diversity of its environment. The graphics and art-style of Horizon are very pretty though. 

2. You were talking about the means though (how long it took) rather than the ends. I explained why it took that long. 

3. I'm not buying it. Monolith Soft is having trouble with the budgets of 7th generation level development, so it would make no sense that they'd produce games faster when the graphical and asset quality standards are also higher (1080p and 2k textures, for example.) Sure, if Monolith Soft were creating the same exact game on PS4 they'd have an easier time, but the assumption is made that they need to improve the quality of assets with the addition power. And this of course disregards other aspects of development and planning like story, unique gameplay elements, and so on. It is quite easy to output many games when you've had experience with modern tools and you are using a modern engine (rather than having to build one yourself.) A better comparison would be Square-Enix and Monolith Soft. It took/will take Square-Enix ten years to finish FFXV, while Monolith Soft finished their game in five. Heck, it took Square-Enix ages to make the much less ambitious Final Fantasy XIII and it wasn't like they were encumbered with that one. 

Again, please do not view this as me bashing xenoblade x, as I fear that is how you are taking my comment.

I am solely comparing the outputs of fallout 4, witcher 3, and horizon to xenoblade x given their development times and budgets. It is no surprise that the ps4 games are producing higher quality games than xenoblade (technically as that is all we have to go by seeing as how the games have not yet released). What I am trying to get at is the results produced by each developer seem to be greater and quicker on the ps4 than on the wii u. I truly do think that if Monolith made xeno x on the ps4 over the wii u, it would have come out last year (i.e. quicker). No, they don't have experience make hd games, but having made xenoblade chronicles, making xeno x is certainly going to be easier for them to do so that should balance out.

This all gets to the main point I was trying to raise, that the ps4 was made for developers in mind, and the speed and quality of ps4 games coming out shows this, despite the wii u having amazing devlopers like monolith soft, retro, and the smash team

Nope I don't think you are bashing Xenoblade, but I do find it odd that there is an opinion going around that The Witcher 3 has a better open world when I try to just run for minutes and not hit an invisiblewall (first thing I did when I started the game) it tells me to fast travel back to areas  of said hub-world. That is not open-world to me. The Witcher 3 has other strengths though, it has great story telling, side-quests, and world building. 

So you are talking about graphics then? Well that was a no-brainer.

Why exactly do you think the game would come out sooner if it were on PS4? Everything would need to be scaled asset-wise, putting more strain on their artists and animators.  When people say the PS4 was made with developers in mind, they mean it is easy to port games because of its X86 architecture. That doesn't make the Wii U inherently hard to develop and exclusive for with respect to the PS4. I think we would have a prettier Xenoblade X releasing around the same time if it were releasing for PS4. That's about it. 



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sc94597 said:
midrange said:

Again, please do not view this as me bashing xenoblade x, as I fear that is how you are taking my comment.

I am solely comparing the outputs of fallout 4, witcher 3, and horizon to xenoblade x given their development times and budgets. It is no surprise that the ps4 games are producing higher quality games than xenoblade (technically as that is all we have to go by seeing as how the games have not yet released). What I am trying to get at is the results produced by each developer seem to be greater and quicker on the ps4 than on the wii u. I truly do think that if Monolith made xeno x on the ps4 over the wii u, it would have come out last year (i.e. quicker). No, they don't have experience make hd games, but having made xenoblade chronicles, making xeno x is certainly going to be easier for them to do so that should balance out.

This all gets to the main point I was trying to raise, that the ps4 was made for developers in mind, and the speed and quality of ps4 games coming out shows this, despite the wii u having amazing devlopers like monolith soft, retro, and the smash team

Nope I don't think you are bashing Xenoblade, but I do find it odd that there is an opinion going around that The Witcher 3 has a better open world when I try to just run for minutes and not hit an invisiblewall (first thing I did when I started the game) it tells me to fast travel back to areas  of said hub-world. That is not open-world to me. The Witcher 3 has other strengths though, it has great story telling, side-quests, and world building. 

So you are talking about graphics then? Well that was a no-brainer.

Why exactly do you think the game would come out sooner if it were on PS4? Everything would need to be scaled asset-wise, putting more strain on their artists and animators.  When people say the PS4 was made with developers in mind, they mean it is easy to port games because of its X86 architecture. That doesn't make the Wii U inherently hard to develop and exclusive for with respect to the PS4. I think we would have a prettier Xenoblade X releasing around the same time if it were releasing for PS4. That's about it. 

Why do I think the game would come out quicker? because the hardware is not as unique and customized on the ps4 compared to the wii u.



midrange said:
sc94597 said:

Nope I don't think you are bashing Xenoblade, but I do find it odd that there is an opinion going around that The Witcher 3 has a better open world when I try to just run for minutes and not hit an invisiblewall (first thing I did when I started the game) it tells me to fast travel back to areas  of said hub-world. That is not open-world to me. The Witcher 3 has other strengths though, it has great story telling, side-quests, and world building. 

So you are talking about graphics then? Well that was a no-brainer.

Why exactly do you think the game would come out sooner if it were on PS4? Everything would need to be scaled asset-wise, putting more strain on their artists and animators.  When people say the PS4 was made with developers in mind, they mean it is easy to port games because of its X86 architecture. That doesn't make the Wii U inherently hard to develop and exclusive for with respect to the PS4. I think we would have a prettier Xenoblade X releasing around the same time if it were releasing for PS4. That's about it. 

Why do I think the game would come out quicker? because the hardware is not as unique and customized on the ps4 compared to the wii u.

The WiiUs architecture is a legacy of the Gamecube and Wii. Monolith Soft isn't a PC developer and has never developed a PC game so the benefits of X86 don't prove valid with them. Meanwhile Monolith Softs last few games have been the Baten Kaitos series and Xenoblade, both of which utilized the same PowerPC architecture as the Wii U. The most unconventional thing about these console- the GPU was replaced with a more standard GPU with programmable shaders. So I don't see how the PS4 would be more familiar to then than the Wii U.



Do they even sell the WiiU without the gamepad?

knock $50 off and give me the classic controller and ill pick one up



BraLoD said:

That's not true, they moved by their own will, as it was a more appealing platform to them, didn't the Wii sales dropped a lot even before the Wii U?

The Wii's end of life was extremely mis-handled. That's one of the most obvious reasons for the Wii's steep decline from '11-'12.



This confirms the next console will have a gimmick and that it will, probably, do more harm than good to the console (probably it'll have low tech). Not that this wasn't expected, but it's a disappointment anyway.



Bet with Teeqoz for 2 weeks of avatar and sig control that Super Mario Odyssey would ship more than 7m on its first 2 months. The game shipped 9.07m, so I won