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Forums - Sony Discussion - PlayStation Now is available on 2015 Sony Blu-ray Players

JustBeingReal said:

So you think PS4 games would automatically run on a PC or any old X86 processor, just because PS4 uses X86 architecture? Interesting and you think you have a clue about this stuff, LOL.

PS4's games are optimized to run on PS4's semi-custom architecture, it has unique bus layout, it has a different approach to it's memory architecture compared to PC, so no it wouldn't just run on any old server, even with Virtualization, it would require a processor design made to accomodate PS4's games, the very way the code runs isn't exactly the same as any old PC, hence why developers can't just chuck their games straight on PS4 dev kits, they have to alter things to run on PS4, otherwise it simply won't work.

My whole point has been that the sheer amount of processing power just isn't available for what you claim would just be a matter of flicking a switch one day to make Playstation Cloud just run, it needs to be built for the purpose, from the ground up, to accomodate all users that Sony intends to market it too.

 

PSNow uses Playstation 3 Cell and RSX hardware, it's made for a small install base of people that want to play games that run on PS3, nothing else, except maybe running movies or music through those servers. It can't run PS4 games, because it's an entirely different architecture.

 

As for your comment on you and others supposedly educating me, it's you and one other user, most people commenting here have been saying the same things as me, because that's how it is, the technology to run a cloud based gaming system to handle all of Sony's processing needs for next gen, simply doesn't exist online, most of the users have a physical console, as in the eighty odd million PS3 owners and 22-23,000,000 PS4 owners, there isn't a server network made to run all of that processing power in the cloud.

As I've said multiple times the economics of this simply don't work well, a physical console is much more desireable business model, because of how quickly the company can actually make money on the product and also make money on the actual games.

 

As for the end of your post, I'll reply whenever I like thanks, as long as the mods let me do so, you're not in a position to give orders. If you choose to not reply again, so be it.

Do you even know what virtualization is? Do you have any idea how an emulator works? Have you ever used any Virtual box or virtual machine software? Do you know what servers are comprised of ... or how they work?

A server designed for virtualization usually is something like 24 sockets ... each socket containing 4-8 cores, 128-256GB of Ram, and RAID hard drive access. A virtualized blade gets assigned a dedicated socket and an assigned memory range. The firmware/ virtualization software tricks the blade into thinking its a standalone device... and as far as it needs to know... it is. 

In terms of the GPU -- Sony would probably work with AMD to make racks of compatable GPU chips that has a load balancer like queue in front of it to delegate which chip does the processing for which blade on that (or within feet) rack.



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sabvre42 said:
Dusk said:

Dude. You said, "Putting PS4 games on here would require servers with PS4 hardware, that means enough unified big memory storage and a tonne of PS4 APUs for the millions of people that end up using this. It's very expensive to do that right now, PS3 tech is cheap for Sony, hence why that's being used in their servers." That fundamentally shows that you don't have a good understanding on the subject. I and others have attemtped to make you aware that there is no need for direct PS4 hardware in these servers, the processors, the APU's or really any of it. All they require, and it's not a hard need to fit, is hardware that is more powerful than the PS4 because they will be runing multiple off of each server. In fact they could likely get away with less powerful hardware per application because it won't need to be rendered in 1080p if there is upscaling on the user end, and since PSNow is actually in the wild and working it can be guaranteed that they have found many work arounds for it, similar to how Netflix has figured out ways to supply 1080p videos to it's still growing 57+ million userbase. The PS4 is NOT a powerhouse in any way and it would not be hard to replicate it's processing abilities. Due to the nature of the cell processor, the PS3 would likely be much harder endeavour to take on because it will take either emulation or a direct API designed to convert the code into the form needed to run on the servers. These servers DO NOT have cell processors in them, that would be ridiculous. They are too expensive, with that said a high end server processor can be upwards of 20 grand, and do not even come close to the processing capabilities necessary for what is required in a server. 

Move on. This is the last reply you will get from on the subject. 


I need to correct you -- PS Now DOES use cell processors. I'd have to search for the article again... but they custom built server racks using actual PS3 hardware (6 blades per rack if i recall correctly). They wanted to ensure compatability and experience between the PS3 and PS Now.

That said, the PS4 is essentially a computer. Emulating the PS4 is doable on scaleable server technology. They don't need actual PS4 hardware and can easily virtualize this.

I wasn't aware of that. It actually does make sense in this scenario because the cell processor is such a singular piece of tech. It does seem like a very expensive way to go about it though because they still aren't cheap. 

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/175005-sonys-playstation-now-uses-custom-designed-hardware-with-eight-ps3s-on-a-single-motherboard

is that the page you are referring to? It's rather intersting, and a clevar way to cut down on the cost associated with it. Essentially creating a custom octo PS3 designed server motherboard. It has likely been tweaked since then as well because the quality of service with PSNow compared to it's beta is quite good, nearly flawless given the right connection, which isn't nearly as hefty as would be initially expected. Although, they still need to add more games for it to take off, but it will come especially now that it's beyond the beta. 



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

Dusk said:
sabvre42 said:


I need to correct you -- PS Now DOES use cell processors. I'd have to search for the article again... but they custom built server racks using actual PS3 hardware (6 blades per rack if i recall correctly). They wanted to ensure compatability and experience between the PS3 and PS Now.

That said, the PS4 is essentially a computer. Emulating the PS4 is doable on scaleable server technology. They don't need actual PS4 hardware and can easily virtualize this.

I wasn't aware of that. It actually does make sense in this scenario because the cell processor is such a singular piece of tech. It does seem like a very expensive way to go about it though because they still aren't cheap. 

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/175005-sonys-playstation-now-uses-custom-designed-hardware-with-eight-ps3s-on-a-single-motherboard

is that the page you are referring to? It's rather intersting, and a clevar way to cut down on the cost associated with it. Essentially creating a custom octo PS3 designed server motherboard. It has likely been tweaked since then as well because the quality of service with PSNow compared to it's beta is quite good, nearly flawless given the right connection, which isn't nearly as hefty as would be initially expected. Although, they still need to add more games for it to take off, but it will come especially now that it's beyond the beta. 


Well tbh - I have a feeling one thing Sony is doing to improve performance is pull the netflix in a box concept. They are installing PS Now racks at local ISP hubs to reduce latency. I'm guesing that contributed to the performance increases.

Its also why these haters piss me off. I experience ZERO input lag on my ps4... and only hit issues on the vita when my wifi flutters. This is on twitchy games too man...



sabvre42 said:
Dusk said:

I wasn't aware of that. It actually does make sense in this scenario because the cell processor is such a singular piece of tech. It does seem like a very expensive way to go about it though because they still aren't cheap. 

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/175005-sonys-playstation-now-uses-custom-designed-hardware-with-eight-ps3s-on-a-single-motherboard

is that the page you are referring to? It's rather intersting, and a clevar way to cut down on the cost associated with it. Essentially creating a custom octo PS3 designed server motherboard. It has likely been tweaked since then as well because the quality of service with PSNow compared to it's beta is quite good, nearly flawless given the right connection, which isn't nearly as hefty as would be initially expected. Although, they still need to add more games for it to take off, but it will come especially now that it's beyond the beta. 


Well tbh - I have a feeling one thing Sony is doing to improve performance is pull the netflix in a box concept. They are installing PS Now racks at local ISP hubs to reduce latency. I'm guesing that contributed to the performance increases.

Its also why these haters piss me off. I experience ZERO input lag on my ps4... and only hit issues on the vita when my wifi flutters. This is on twitchy games too man...


I don't have a PS4 right now, but I used Onlive and had fairly good experiences with it, and that's pretty old tech now comparitively. It certainly isn't a bad think like many seem to think it is. I personally don't think it's ready for prime time yet, but give it a few more years and it very well could be. 

I'm actually quite interested in it on a Playstation TV. Any experience with it on that?



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

RolStoppable said:
Dusk said:

So now there's no reason to buy a PS3 and soon PS4? That is essentially the idea behind PSNow is it not?

Kind of like chopping off their own head.

You don't seem to understand that it's not in Sony's best interest to keep making dedicated hardware. The PlayStation consoles themselves are the biggest reason for the lack of or low profitability in gaming, so it shouldn't be surprising that Sony will move in a direction where they have to no longer take a loss on hardware.

? PS4 is profiting at an alarming pace with the lions share of the market.

IMO this is just a little stunt to steal some bluray player sales away from Samsung.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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I also think  that the idea is good but I am doubtful whether it is going to work or not. People still prefer to play PS3 games. I also like PS3 a lot. So I am planning to buy acheter black ops 3.