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Forums - Politics Discussion - Obama's Continued War on Human Rights

sundin13 said:
o_O.Q said:

"My point is that there is virtually no benefit to allowing higher capacity rifles, while there are downsides (as I explained about crime potential). "

are you calling all of the soldiers in the army criminals?

" the non existent benefits makes it seem clear that there should be no reason to allow these guns to be sold or owned."

if there are no benefits to owning these weapons then what is your problem?


I really don't want to say anything insulting, but you must lack all capacity for logic if you somehow interpreted those statements that way.

First of all, I was quite obviously speaking about civilian use.

Second, when speaking about benefits and costs, I was saying that their increased technical capabilities do not produce any benefits in legal, civilian use.

Both of these things were explained in more detail in my other posts. Feel free to read them if you want to see my full explanation

NobleTeam360 said:
sundin13 said:


Not every crime is commited by someone in a position to obtain illegal weapons from the black market...

Well yeah because any black market for guns currently is pointless since they are legal (in most places)

In the scenario where guns are banned though the black market for guns would explode. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree though, it's clear we won't change each others mind on the subject. 


Read: "someone in a position to", not "someone who has".

Crimes are often commited by people who were not a criminal before that point in time. I don't know about you, but if I was planning on commiting a crime, I would have no idea how to locate weapons on the black market.

Also of note, due to supply and demand curves, prices of illegal weapons would likely increase quite drastically over the black market, making it even more difficult to obtain illegal weapons.


Exactly simple economics. On the other hand most people smart enough would not go risking getting a gun from the black market cause who knows how many people that guy has killed? Image you buying a gun then you get caught and suddenly you are pinned with 10 murders.  



 

 

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Holy shit this thread caught on fire fast. I bet I could post anything and people would respond telling me that I'm wrong.

The GameCube doesn't look like a lunch box. HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW??



Official Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Thread

                                      

Gun Control is one of the few things that the Obama Administration is doing right. The right to bear arms was given to us forever ago back when there was a possibility of needing to overthrow the government if they abused their power. Even if the government did abuse their power now us having guns would not do a thing in the world to stop it. All it does is give criminals easy access to guns and lead to people dying.


I have nothing against bolt action rifles, shotguns (unless they are on a clip), or pistols (for self defense) but Semi-Auto rifles have not place in society (or any firearm with a clip larger than 12)



morenoingrato said:
I heard the nice blue states have pretty decent people that are not totally insane and living in the 1800s.

Hey! I live in a red state and I'm not insane. Well, I am, but not for the reasons you would think.



Official Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Thread

                                      

morenoingrato said:
curl-6 said:
Threads like this make me glad I don't live in the US.

I heard the nice blue states have pretty decent people that are not totally insane and living in the 1800s.

Yep, blue states have no issues because they just live on welfare and foodstamps :)

http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2014/acs/acsbr13-13.pdf?eml=gd&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

 

Take a look through the States and Compare the Red and Blue States

Texas = 1.9%

California = 4.1%

........ I am not going to say that every Red state will out do every Blue state but on average the Red States come out quite a bit ahead



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sc94597 said:

1. And you support the policy just because it is a "compromise." What's the point of that? I still don't understand. 

3. These crimes involving AR15's are not however. Your point was that it would not allow people to kill a lot of people at once. The only instances in which this happens is when it is a mentally ill person planning out said attack, a terrorist, or a cartel killing off rival gang members. 

4. There are plenty of impoverished people who know how to use guns in the U.S. Furthermore, safety courses are simple and free for those who need them. Testing will take the time of police officers and the paper work would have costs. This is a deadweight cost with no personal benefit. It is a poor policy for that reason. And it affects people differently. The people who need the weapons the most are the ones with the barriers of entry. 

5. In the social sciences, yes. What benefits me or you, unless it harms another person, is my or your decision. Other people make decisions for me or you is indeed elitism, because they don't know my or your context. 

Also, social science is a funny thing, it never agrees with itself. Real science based on real scientific methods on the otherhand is perfectly in agreement. It is quite obvious the experts, on both sides, don't kow if gun control works, any more than your average individual on the street, likely because the results in studies are too ambigious. 


1. Let me get this straight? What policy are we talking about right now? The OP or the banning of AR15-esque weapons?

3. If someone is in possession of an ar15, would they not use it in a spur of the moment scenario? If someone was planning on commiting a large scale shooting, but did not have access to the black market, wouldn't they purchase/use the biggest gun they could?

4. If safety courses are free, why are you whining about trying to make them mandatory? Also, who is to say that police officers have to be the ones doing the training? NO PERSONAL BENEFIT. ARE YOU INSANE?! ...at this point, I'm pretty sure you are just fucking with me.

5. ...what? Implying that guns don't cause harm? What? Just....what?

" Also, social science is a funny thing, it never agrees with itself. Real science based on real scientific methods on the otherhand is perfectly in agreement."

Bullshit. All the bullshit in the world. Huge piles of bullshit. You must have never gotten deep into science if you think that science agrees with itself. Science is always bickering and trying to prove that everybody else did everything wrong.

I think I'm done at this point...this is getting satirically ridiculous



sc94597 said:
Insidb said:

I am and I implore you to research the history.

Considering there was no union (in the sense it was later used in the civil war) when the second amendment was proposed, I am definitely interested. Please provide a link to your source. :) 

Google "2nd Amendment slaver militias" and you will see many articles on the debate and you will also see that several founding fathers were very pointed on the need for the compromise.



morenoingrato said:
curl-6 said:
Threads like this make me glad I don't live in the US.

I heard the nice blue states have pretty decent people that are not totally insane and living in the 1800s.

Yep! I recommend Vermont (one of the bluest state in the union.) 

Oh wait. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Vermont

State permit to purchase? No

Firearm Registration? No

Assault Weapon Law? No

Magazine Restriction? No

Owner License required? No

Carry permits issued? No

Open Carry? Yes

State Preemption of local restrictions? Yes

NFA weapons restriction? No

I guess it happens to be ones of the most gun-friendly states too. ;) This is an issue that has pushed Democrats out of office. It is actually one of the issues which distances them from their working class voter base, and it is also why they don't like to mention it too much. 



Skullwaker said:
Holy shit this thread caught on fire fast.

Of course it did, it's about guns and Obama. Apparently to Americans that's like someone walking into a Smash Bros tournament and shouting "Melee sucks!" Guaranteed to start a debate. :p

EDIT: No offense US-ers, I'm just joking around.



Insidb said:

Google "2nd Amendment slaver militias" and you will see many articles on the debate and you will also see that several founding fathers were very pointed on the need for the compromise.

Sounds like historical revisionism to me. Not interested. Thanks though. ;) Googled and couldn't find an impartial source or peer-reviewed study. I did find a nice article by The Indpendent Institute though addressing it. 

http://blog.independent.org/2013/01/30/the-second-amendment-was-not-ratified-to-preserve-slavery/