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Forums - Politics - Should Europe fear Islamism or embrace it

 

Is this poll racist

Yes racist you should be brought to court 19 8.19%
 
Yes, but in your right of freedom of speech 35 15.09%
 
Indifferent 16 6.90%
 
No 23 9.91%
 
Not at all, some of your points are valid 26 11.21%
 
Not at all this demographic problem is real 113 48.71%
 
Total:232
Cobretti2 on 07 March 2015

Australia might have stopped the boats but we sure as hell let them in the front door legally.

Give it 50 years and we will be owned by the Chinese as we keep selling everything to them.

The Muslim situation here isn't too bad most are nice people. However we have let some extremist fucks in and we don't deport them because of fear of racist backlash. Then they end up killing their ex-wife, sending threatening emails and phone calls to wives of dead solders and eventually taking a hot chocolate drink store with hostages. Now nut jobs like this should not even be on the street let alone in any country as a free man.

Australia has become too soft and we changing our traditions like holiday greetings to something that won't offend anyone. Even Santa Claus is now offensive in some places. The way I see it is this only embrace cultures where their cultures embrace yours. If you visit a Muslim country and try to force your culture on them it would not end well for you, so I don't see why we shoudl bend over backwards to accommodate their needs. If they miss their laws so much they can go back to the shithole they come from and enjoy those laws.



 

 

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cfin2987@gmail.com on 07 March 2015
Qwark said:
cfin2987@gmail.com said:

Neither. Just like any religion, there are extremist links. People with low intelligence will believe everything they read on the Internet just like the nazis did about Jews (which also have extremist branches of their religion). The worst thing is that the majority, in the case seem to believe the falsehoods they read online. I don't need to fear "Islam" and I don't need to embrace it, just like I don't have to fear Christian extremists or embrace them. Why you draw all of the 1 billion Muslims into the question, I am unsure. There are entire nations of prosperous, peaceful Muslims. 

I am not saying that there aren't peacefull muslims I am saying that a massive immigration to Europe could change Europe from a Western society to a hybrid Western-Muslim society. The Nazi's did not purely hate the jews for religion they believed they where better than jews and since jews had a huge ammount of money if was only a logical pick take there belongings and kill them. As I do not believe everything which stands online I kinda believe the CBS and newspapers and newsprograms since some leaders in Europeespecially Italy are seeing they can't handle the current situation. Immigration is a costly operation which is a long therm investment when you do it right, (if that is even possible) not how we are doing it now since anti semitism is rising, people are fighting for IS and of our costituional rights has been put in doubt.

Imagine what happens with a far greater pressure since most people are like sheep, but a very vocal and active party could come a long way as IS has proven by attracting broters from Europe to their so called state. There are entire nations of peacefull prosperous muslims and they state that way because they are sovereign, but put a sunit, a sjiet and a kurd in one country and see what happens, something like in Iraq. Christian influences in Europe are purely religious and they don't tend to mix with our laws as parties as al-sharia belgium have proved that a certain situation could become reality hat muslim rules and European laws mix when the percentages are right.

Christians in Europe have been messing with the laws since the beginning and killing each other. The English came into ireland, tried to force Protestantism (see the penal laws) in the Irish and we were killing each other over Christianity for 800 years. The same happened across the continent. It was an excuse to fight, as is the situation with Islamic extremists. They are using religion to cause chaos. 

Islam is a newer religion than Christianity. As such, it will go through processes of growth and development. Trust me on this. I have studied it in college specifically. If or by the time enough Muslims push their laws in Europe, their system will have developed to the same level of Christianity. The history of Islam is almost identical to that of Christianity. They even persecute the same areas of society as Christianity did at the same age of the religion.



Qwark on 07 March 2015
spemanig said:
Qwark said:

I will give you an example slaughtering animals without sedating them is not legal in the Netherlands, except for when you're ritual slaughtering animals and cutting there troaths while they drown in their own blood you should watch a vidro about that, it is legalised animal cruelty. So there is mixing between laws which isn't to great not to argue about our rules how to treath homesexuals like any other being and the way certain religions look to homosexuals or jews for that matter.

Skip to 4:19 and tell me this is not fucking cruel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HF_0SkEl80


I hope you aren't seriously implying that that is how standard Halal killings are done. The whole point of Halal is that the killing is quick and that the animal feels as little pain as possible. And with most Halal sacrifices, the animals are stunned. Like almost 90% of them. I don't know where that video was shot, but I know Muslims that would be seriously offended for being misrepresented as cruel like that.


This is how ritual slaughters are performed by the biggest ritual unsedaned slaughter in The Netherlands, due to an exception in the law for muslim and jewish slaughtering. Stunning is a form seduction and probably most ritual slaughters are sedaned but the fact that I would like to demonstrate is that in fact rules are exchanging. Because appearently some forms of ritual slaughtering don't allow seduction, amongst them a few hallal and a few koosjer slaughtering procedures, there are more vids of those slaughterings which are legal here due to exceptions and freedom of believe.

This should actually be shown to all people to see why slaughtering should be sedaned since if there is a god who approves this, I am not quite sure if I like to meet him.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

cfin2987@gmail.com on 07 March 2015
Ka-pi96 said:
cfin2987@gmail.com said:

Neither. Just like any religion, there are extremist links. People with low intelligence will believe everything they read on the Internet just like the nazis did about Jews (which also have extremist branches of their religion). The worst thing is that the majority, in the case seem to believe the falsehoods they read online. I don't need to fear "Islam" and I don't need to embrace it, just like I don't have to fear Christian extremists or embrace them. Why you draw all of the 1 billion Muslims into the question, I am unsure. There are entire nations of prosperous, peaceful Muslims. 

Yep, just look at Turkey. They are the example to follow.

UAE is fine to a large extent. The religion is young and will go through transitions as Christianity did. It's currently in the same phase as Christianity was about 700 years ago. No big problem really. Western countries must feel very weak if they think a religion with inferior societal norms can "take over". 



slab_of_bacon on 07 March 2015

If it doesn't hurt anybody....



Feel free to check out my stream on twitch 

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Panther111 on 07 March 2015
spemanig said:

Panther111 said:

Religion is mostly a set of laws, not much unlike the american constitution, but under the guise of so called higher powers and such.

a constituion might state that public drinking should be banned, because of so and so, and a religion might state the same, because its supposedly the gods will and such.

most religions are laws put into practice as to how one should live, and what not to do. And if you deter from the texts, you are breaking the code, or in a constituion, the law. 

If you break constitutional laws, you go to jail, if you break religious laws, you go to "hell". 

Problem arises when the constitutinal law, and the religious laws are opposing one another. And laws have little to do with culture.


Right. Good thing you don't have to opt in to being a Muslim, right? Making all their religious "laws" completely irrelevant to you. There's absolutely no problem with constitutunal and religious law opposing each other. There is no law forcing Muslims to eat pork or forcing non-muslims to read the Quran, right? So I'm sorry, but I'm not at all seeing the real issue.

The constititutions and its laws are constantly changing, sometimes for the better, and following the ideals of liberty, justice and the pursuit of happines for all, and sometimes for the worse. The laws are adjusted.

the laws of the quran are not, and some might see certain quotations in the quran and view them as optional and viable because it is the set of rules they primarily follow. If the american constitution still had slavery as an optional law, surely there would be some who would chose to indulge in such heinous acts. But the paragraphs about slavery were reformed and removed, thank God for that.

certain parts of the qurans laws are still there, and thus, certain people chose to act on them although it should have been abolished long ago.

european, american, asian continents all have cruel histories, and atrocities commited in the name of God or the law. But that law has always been changing, whereas religious laws do not. Despite being over 2000 years old.



Barozi on 07 March 2015

I don't see this as a big problem. Especially not in the near future.
Do you have some hard numbers for the amount of Muslims (or people from Islam-dominated countries) coming to AND being allowed to stay in Europe?
I could imagine that legal immigrants from non-European countries like Russia, the Americas and other East-Asian countries outweight the amount of Muslims (refugees and non-refugees) migrating to Europe.

The fertility rate is a bit higher, true but that's going to take several centuries to make an impact.



siddhartha87 on 07 March 2015

Islamism or any kind of religious Ism is regressive and a hindrance to human progress.

Once you come to live in actual religion based societies and see your freedoms trampled with censorship, oppression of women, death penalty etc then you realize how lucky you are.

Here in third world countries (I'm from India) we are fighting to protect secularism because we can see for ourselves the threat religious intolerance, bigotry and extremism pose. Have no doubts about it when it comes to religion its the radicals who always manage to subdue the moderates.

Europeans should fight hard to protect your hard won freedoms.



Qwark on 07 March 2015
Barozi said:

I don't see this as a big problem. Especially not in the near future.
Do you have some hard numbers for the amount of Muslims (or people from Islam-dominated countries) coming to AND being allowed to stay in Europe?
I could imagine that legal immigrants from non-European countries like Russia, the Americas and other East-Asian countries outweight the amount of Muslims (refugees and non-refugees) migrating to Europe.

The fertility rate is a bit higher, true but that's going to take several centuries to make an impact.

I think this flowcharts is giving reasons to worry especially in France where 8% of the population is muslim, especially the terrorism chart worries me. http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/01/daily-chart-2,



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

badgenome on 07 March 2015
cfin2987@gmail.com said:

Islam is a newer religion than Christianity. As such, it will go through processes of growth and development. Trust me on this. I have studied it in college specifically. If or by the time enough Muslims push their laws in Europe, their system will have developed to the same level of Christianity. The history of Islam is almost identical to that of Christianity. They even persecute the same areas of society as Christianity did at the same age of the religion.

That's absurdly reductive. There is no one path for the development of a religion according to its age, and it is far from inevitable that the path it takes is ultimately toward liberalism.