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Forums - Sales Discussion - WW HW + SW week ending 31st Jan

Jabbamk1 said:

OMG, you guys. I can't stop laughing.
If you don't know I'm a massive musou fan. I was just browsing Chartz (because one of the users releases COMG Japan pre order numbers there in an easy to read format) and decided to take a look at the numbers they were putting out. Then I noticed the image below-

It shows that "Dynasty Warriors 8: Empires" was the 45th best selling game of the week ending Jan 31st in the USA. Just ahead of Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor.

Except there is just one issue. THE GAME DOESN'T COME OUT TILL THE END OF FEBRUARY! So how the hell have chartz "tracked" this game to place it as the 45th best seller of that week.... when the game hasn't even been released.

I really can't stop laughing at how people keep trusting chartz and posting their numbers as if it's gospel. This is just another bit of proof that chartz make up their numbers....The game was delayed from the date listed on chartz yet they haven't fixed it and have still released "tracked" numbers claiming it's the 45th best seller..... Unbelievable.


It have happened before... VGC algorithms have some issues.

PSVita had sold less than God Eater 2 (like 15%) even though at that week the only way to buy the game was buying the console together.

The Other thing was a game that released only for PS4 (X1 edition got delayed some days/weeks), but it still charted for X1.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Wii U is in a desperate need of a price cut. I bloody hope the projected loss next quarter is caused by a $80-100 cut.

The current catalogue of games is already decent, there are more great games coming - now get the price right and watch the baseline grow! I know I'm gonna pick it up the moment the price drops.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

DonFerrari said:

It have happened before... VGC algorithms have some issues.

PSVita had sold less than God Eater 2 (like 15%) even though at that week the only way to buy the game was buying the console together.

The Other thing was a game that released only for PS4 (X1 edition got delayed some days/weeks), but it still charted for X1.


So they basically make the number up.....

Good to know. 



oniyide said:
SjOne said:

Are you really shocked when the PS3 still gets more games and has higher value than Wii U? This is no different than when PS2 was outselling 360 in its early years

true but at this point i would have thought WIi U is on the market long enough for it to not happen anymore.


It'll happen as long as Wii U goes through drought periods 



SjOne said:
oniyide said:

true but at this point i would have thought WIi U is on the market long enough for it to not happen anymore.


It'll happen as long as Wii U goes through drought periods 

thats a good amount of new PS3 buyers despite it being on the shelves for the while



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OttoniBastos said:
RealGamingExpert said:

So you're telling me that not even Zelda will move systems? Okay...


Zelda doesn't sell as much software as SSB or MK,neither have the "family appeal" that this two games have.The game may push the hardware one or two weeks but like Dan said if MK wasn't enough to change WiiU situation,zelda can't too.

software pushes sales for long periods. it's not as simple as black and white/if MK (non front loaded game) can't, nothing can. And Zelda does tend to sell comparable numbers to smash bros and mario kart. last gen had a bigger difference for MK and slightly for smash, but we haven't seen what will happen this gen.



Jabbamk1 said:
DonFerrari said:

It have happened before... VGC algorithms have some issues.

PSVita had sold less than God Eater 2 (like 15%) even though at that week the only way to buy the game was buying the console together.

The Other thing was a game that released only for PS4 (X1 edition got delayed some days/weeks), but it still charted for X1.


So they basically make the number up.....

Good to know. 


Not exactly, but really close to it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Jabbamk1 said:


So they basically make the number up.....

Good to know. 


No, numbers can be derived from things other than tracking the physical sales for themselves.

For example, if had the number of ice cream cones sold in a particular region for a particular month, you can also derive from that a number relating to how much ice cream was sold. If you know that typically one gallon of ice cream is sold for every 100 cones, and you know that 500 cones have been sold, it would be reasonable to "post" the number that 5 gallons of ice cream was sold. It's an estimate.

We know, for example, that VGChartz uses this methodology for tracking hardware sales. VGChartz algorithms, over the years, have been tweaked so that they know that when the Xbox One sells X units in a particular area, odds are the PS4 has sold Y number.

VGChartz is a small company that tracks global data, it is ludicrous to assume that they get physical numbers in every region for every piece of software, many estimates, particularly of smaller titles that are strongly focused on a lesser-tracked region, will be numbers derived completely from other data sets. They know that if PS4 has X units in A region, and sold Y units more in a particular week, and game of genre P with marketing budget S is released, the odds of that game selling a number is I%.

I wish people understood more about how tracking, in general, works. Even Sony's official "sell through" numbers are complete estimates, as there's no way in hell that every retailer in the world reports back their numbers to Sony. Sony themsleves will derive that number from their shipment figures, the numbers from the retailers that do report, and other factors like the number of new PS4s connected to the Internet that week, etc.



SamuelRSmith said:
Jabbamk1 said:


So they basically make the number up.....

Good to know. 


No, numbers can be derived from things other than tracking the physical sales for themselves.

For example, if had the number of ice cream cones sold in a particular region for a particular month, you can also derive from that a number relating to how much ice cream was sold. If you know that typically one gallon of ice cream is sold for every 100 cones, and you know that 500 cones have been sold, it would be reasonable to "post" the number that 5 gallons of ice cream was sold. It's an estimate.

We know, for example, that VGChartz uses this methodology for tracking hardware sales. VGChartz algorithms, over the years, have been tweaked so that they know that when the Xbox One sells X units in a particular area, odds are the PS4 has sold Y number.

VGChartz is a small company that tracks global data, it is ludicrous to assume that they get physical numbers in every region for every piece of software, many estimates, particularly of smaller titles that are strongly focused on a lesser-tracked region, will be numbers derived completely from other data sets. They know that if PS4 has X units in A region, and sold Y units more in a particular week, and game of genre P with marketing budget S is released, the odds of that game selling a number is I%.

I wish people understood more about how tracking, in general, works. Even Sony's official "sell through" numbers are complete estimates, as there's no way in hell that every retailer in the world reports back their numbers to Sony. Sony themsleves will derive that number from their shipment figures, the numbers from the retailers that do report, and other factors like the number of new PS4s connected to the Internet that week, etc.


That doesn't explain how you can "track" a game which is one month from release and rank it as the 45th best selling game in the USA for that week. Perhaps you missed the fact that THE GAME ISN'T OUT YET!

And don't give me that whole "an estimate from Sony is the same as an estimate from VGChartz". That's a load of bs. 

VGChartz quite literally make their numbers up as proved above. You even said yourself that they use no actual data to come to their numbers and just use complete guess work based on trends in order to come up with a definitve number. Companies like NPD and Gfk use 90-95% actual hard data with the rest being an estimate. NPD and Gfk are far more accurate than VGChartz and anyone who says otherwise is deluded. 

And please don't use that condescending attitude with myself. I work for a market research organisation within the telecommunications industry. I know how it works. 



CGI-Quality said:
binary solo said:

 There's a certain turkey who should be dropping by any time now.

It's just not nice to call folks out this way! 

he's got a legit excuse not to be here. Currently filming the remake of cinema paradiso!