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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo Getting Outmarketed By Smartphone Games

t3mporary_126 on 08 February 2015
zorg1000 said:
Also Mario Kart 8 ads were aired in movie theaters before Godzilla

I also saw a Pikmin 3 ad in theaters when watching Frozen in 2013 along with Mario and Luigi Dream Team and Pokemom X and Y.

It seems like Nintendo's tv ads appear mostly on kids' network but these aren't the only ads Nintendo have. Nintendo does advertise in other places like movies, YouTube, Twitch, Twitter and other social media sites and I think that's good enough since a lot of people visit these sites.

Also, a lot of people use Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and YouTube more than their TV to watch their shows, movies, or videos and Nintendo has put ads in these places (except for Netflix of course). 



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NintendoPie on 08 February 2015

You act like mobile game companies are the only ones out-marketing Nintendo. A hooker on a corner advertises herself better than Nintendo.



Scisca on 08 February 2015
JWeinCom said:

The difference is when and where you advertise it.  Spending 4.5 million on a superbowl add isn't always a wise decision.  With that money, you could place 16 ads in prime time TV shows, which you could select to more carefully cater to your audience.  That's for top shows like the Voice or Big Bang theory.  For major but not the most major shows, you could be looking at 100K, which means 40 ads.  For non-primetime shows, obviously much less.

Now, when you're marketing something like Doritos, beer, life insurance, cell phones, or a F2P game where you have a very broad market, it makes sense to place an ad in the Superbowl.  If you're marketing something that has a more defined niche, you don't.  There is a reason why Microsoft and Sony aren't advertising in the Superbowl either.


I'm not saying they absolutely have to have an ad during Superbowl (I'm European, so I see nothing special in that), though admittedly Sony and MS air their ads during Champions League and the CL Final is the closest you can get to Superbowl in Europe and they see value in it. The problem is that Nintendo isn't only quitting on Superbowl, but on marketing in general. Even from a perspective of a person living in a country that Nintendo has never heard of, I can tell you that Nintendo has dropped the ball big time. Over here people at least knew about Wii. I asked my gf a few days ago and she told me she knew what it is, played it and loved it and was very happy to hear I own one, but when I told her there was a new Wii, she had no idea about that and didn't know what it offered. She plays her tablet on a daily basis, but has never heard of DS or 3DS. I have to let her play my Vita and see what she thinks about it.

I remember to this day the ads that inspired me to buy the Wii - my first Nintendo console ever and my first console of that generation. There are no such ads for Wii U, there's no marketing push, no energy and hype around Nintendo products. I hope they pick it up with the N3DS, I've just read about the ad during TWD - we'll see how long they push it this way. Let's hope they make a push with N3DS and Wii U once they cut its price (hopefully to $250 or less).



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

JWeinCom on 08 February 2015
Scisca said:
JWeinCom said:

The difference is when and where you advertise it.  Spending 4.5 million on a superbowl add isn't always a wise decision.  With that money, you could place 16 ads in prime time TV shows, which you could select to more carefully cater to your audience.  That's for top shows like the Voice or Big Bang theory.  For major but not the most major shows, you could be looking at 100K, which means 40 ads.  For non-primetime shows, obviously much less.

Now, when you're marketing something like Doritos, beer, life insurance, cell phones, or a F2P game where you have a very broad market, it makes sense to place an ad in the Superbowl.  If you're marketing something that has a more defined niche, you don't.  There is a reason why Microsoft and Sony aren't advertising in the Superbowl either.


I'm not saying they absolutely have to have an ad during Superbowl (I'm European, so I see nothing special in that), though admittedly Sony and MS air their ads during Champions League and the CL Final is the closest you can get to Superbowl in Europe and they see value in it. The problem is that Nintendo isn't only quitting on Superbowl, but on marketing in general. Even from a perspective of a person living in a country that Nintendo has never heard of, I can tell you that Nintendo has dropped the ball big time. Over here people at least knew about Wii. I asked my gf a few days ago and she told me she knew what it is, played it and loved it and was very happy to hear I own one, but when I told her there was a new Wii, she had no idea about that and didn't know what it offered. She plays her tablet on a daily basis, but has never heard of DS or 3DS. I have to let her play my Vita and see what she thinks about it.

I remember to this day the ads that inspired me to buy the Wii - my first Nintendo console ever and my first console of that generation. There are no such ads for Wii U, there's no marketing push, no energy and hype around Nintendo products. I hope they pick it up with the N3DS, I've just read about the ad during TWD - we'll see how long they push it this way. Let's hope they make a push with N3DS and Wii U once they cut its price (hopefully to $250 or less).


Well, the topic was specifically about superbowl ads.  The responses that marketing is different for retail vs smartphone was in regards to that.  

I really can't speak to their overall advertisement.  Your anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove much one way or the other.  Obviously their advertising has been ineffective, you can see that by sales, but I can't say if that's a problem of spending or just bad ads. 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that marketing a console requires a different strategy than marketing a smartphone game.  Getting people to buy something that is (sort of) free is different than convincing them to throw down 300 bucks.



Soundwave on 08 February 2015
JWeinCom said:
Scisca said:


I'm not saying they absolutely have to have an ad during Superbowl (I'm European, so I see nothing special in that), though admittedly Sony and MS air their ads during Champions League and the CL Final is the closest you can get to Superbowl in Europe and they see value in it. The problem is that Nintendo isn't only quitting on Superbowl, but on marketing in general. Even from a perspective of a person living in a country that Nintendo has never heard of, I can tell you that Nintendo has dropped the ball big time. Over here people at least knew about Wii. I asked my gf a few days ago and she told me she knew what it is, played it and loved it and was very happy to hear I own one, but when I told her there was a new Wii, she had no idea about that and didn't know what it offered. She plays her tablet on a daily basis, but has never heard of DS or 3DS. I have to let her play my Vita and see what she thinks about it.

I remember to this day the ads that inspired me to buy the Wii - my first Nintendo console ever and my first console of that generation. There are no such ads for Wii U, there's no marketing push, no energy and hype around Nintendo products. I hope they pick it up with the N3DS, I've just read about the ad during TWD - we'll see how long they push it this way. Let's hope they make a push with N3DS and Wii U once they cut its price (hopefully to $250 or less).


Well, the topic was specifically about superbowl ads.  The responses that marketing is different for retail vs smartphone was in regards to that.  

I really can't speak to their overall advertisement.  Your anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove much one way or the other.  Obviously their advertising has been ineffective, you can see that by sales, but I can't say if that's a problem of spending or just bad ads. 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that marketing a console requires a different strategy than marketing a smartphone game.  Getting people to buy something that is (sort of) free is different than convincing them to throw down 300 bucks.


I don't really buy this line of reasoning, if anything that would say that you should be marketing *more* if you're the one trying to sell the 300 dollar product. Also these ads are not just running during the Superbowl, I've seen the Kate Upton one as mentioned like 10 times this week alone. 



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JWeinCom on 08 February 2015
Soundwave said:
JWeinCom said:


Well, the topic was specifically about superbowl ads.  The responses that marketing is different for retail vs smartphone was in regards to that.  

I really can't speak to their overall advertisement.  Your anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove much one way or the other.  Obviously their advertising has been ineffective, you can see that by sales, but I can't say if that's a problem of spending or just bad ads. 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that marketing a console requires a different strategy than marketing a smartphone game.  Getting people to buy something that is (sort of) free is different than convincing them to throw down 300 bucks.


I don't really buy this line of reasoning, if anything that would say that you should be marketing *more* if you're the one trying to sell the 300 dollar product. Also these ads are not just running during the Superbowl, I've seen the Kate Upton one as mentioned like 10 times this week alone. 

It's not a matter of more or less, it's a matter of spending that money wisely.  Advertising is not free, and more is not necessarily better.  

When you're dealing with a 300 product as opposed to a free one in a similar category, your product is fundamentally going to be more niche.  So, more advertising is probably not a great idea.  What is a good idea, is targeting the demographic that is likely to buy that product.  The superbowl has such a broad audience that most of the products being advertised are things like cars, food, hygeine products, etc, which have a really broad audience.  There's a reason why no retail games were advertised during the big game.  They have a narrower appeal, and it didn't make sense.

As people have pointed out in this thread, the target audience, profit margins, and business model are so different that it's a silly comparison.  That's not to say that Nintendo's marketing has been great, but it is to say that the premise of this thread is fundamentally flawed.



Soundwave on 08 February 2015
JWeinCom said:
Soundwave said:


I don't really buy this line of reasoning, if anything that would say that you should be marketing *more* if you're the one trying to sell the 300 dollar product. Also these ads are not just running during the Superbowl, I've seen the Kate Upton one as mentioned like 10 times this week alone. 

It's not a matter of more or less, it's a matter of spending that money wisely.  Advertising is not free, and more is not necessarily better.  

When you're dealing with a 300 product as opposed to a free one in a similar category, your product is fundamentally going to be more niche.  So, more advertising is probably not a great idea.  What is a good idea, is targeting the demographic that is likely to buy that product.  The superbowl has such a broad audience that most of the products being advertised are things like cars, food, hygeine products, etc, which have a really broad audience.  There's a reason why no retail games were advertised during the big game.  They have a narrower appeal, and it didn't make sense.

As people have pointed out in this thread, the target audience, profit margins, and business model are so different that it's a silly comparison.  That's not to say that Nintendo's marketing has been great, but it is to say that the premise of this thread is fundamentally flawed.


If you can afford it I don't see how a Superbowl commercial is somehow a bad thing, especially if you actually have a good commercial. Also it's not like many products advertised during the Superbowl are "free", there's plenty of luxury products that cost well in excess of $300 advertised during the Superbowl. 

But no one is even saying Nintendo has to advertise during the Superbowl. More like just advertise period during shows actual people over the age of 10 years old watch. 

These smartphone ads are not just Superbowl ads, they are running constantly now even after the Superbowl. 

The 3DS spots on Better Call Saul/Walking Dead is finally a step in the right direction, but Nintendo's dug themselves in a very deep hole. 

Microsoft does advertise during the Superbowl they just chose to focus on the Surface tablet as that's more important to them than the XBox. Sony actually did have a Superbowl commercial for their Xperia Gaming phone a few years ago too and had a commercial for The Order (PS4 game) during the Superbowl pre-game this year. Sony also advertises heavily with FIFA/champion's league soccer/World Cup, which is the Euro equivalent to the Superbowl. 



OnlyForDisplay on 09 February 2015
Soundwave said:

Like seriously? Forget competing with Sony/MS. I'm seeing smartphone games get far more marketing than Nintendo's games. 

I've seen that Kate Upton smartphone game commercial that aired during the Superbowl like 10 times this week already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkaWyrm8EQg

 

And the Liam Neeson Clash of Clans smartphone commercial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC2qk2X3fKA

I know internally Nintendo has probably given up on the Wii U being any kind of success and they're likely dissapointed in the 3DS too, but you can't just let all your mindshare slip from the market and think people are just going to come running back in 1.5-2 years when you decide to launch Glorious Wonder Fusion Platform. 

 

 

I concur. The WiI U definitely needs help, and they really should ramp up the New 3DS marketing as that is due soon, as is Majora's Mask. I wonder if Nintendo of America has a bundle for Majora's Mask. If they do not market their product, then people are more inclined to invest in mobile gaming. More new IP such as Bravely Default can also help as well. Nintendo definitely has what it takes to be competitive; it is just do they want to?



" It has never been about acknowledgement when you achieve something. When you are acknowledged, then and only then can you achieve something. Always have your friends first to achieve your goals later." - OnlyForDisplay

naruball on 09 February 2015
sundin13 said:
naruball said:

Actually, that's a great point. I forgot about that. But I still stand by my point. Ninty's advertisement of wiiu is nothing short of embarassing at this point. I keep reading how these Nintendo directs are better than any kind of advertisment and I question whether some people spend a little too much time on forums to realize how the real world works (not referring to anyone here, as I didn't see anyone mentioning that this time) . Yes, of course you're right. Something that costs 0 will be advertised differently than a console and a game or it's a much harder sell. But I see no real effort from Ninty to adverise their products properly so saying for example that "it's not perfect" is an understatement. Some efforts with celebrittes or some big budget ads could help the sales. I'm not gonna claim that I know how much exactly, but I would have liked to have seen some effort. At this point it looks to me as they've given up and the only reason they keep releasing games for wiiu is because they were years in development anyway and to avoid upsetting the fans. It seems like they want to cut their loses and they're going for pure profit without taking the necessary steps to save/help the console. Could be wrong, but that's the way I see it. 

There's a reason superbowl ads are full of celebrities. They help a lot, even when it comes to buying something more expensive than a wiiu + a game. I think there was a time when Call of Duty had a dlc coming out and there was a live action trailer with several celebrities. It gets people talking, so I think they should have tried it. As for link for the example I gave, I'm afraid I don't have one. It's based solely on memory when wii party came out in the UK (was living in Edinburgh then, so I paid closer attention) and there was a vgc member who made a thread about JLS making an ad for the game and some people mentioned that they were big in the UK. I watched the ad and thought it was pretty cool. Then I kept checking the UK sales charts and noticed that the game had quite the presence after the commericial started airing. But, yeah, like you said the fact that wii was popular back then made games released on it a 40 pound purchase instead of  wiiu+game. 


They have been advertising, they've just been doing it a little differently. For example, they have been doing targeted advertisement/promotion with youtubers who have a fairly high female viewership. Smosh did a video with Miyamoto playing Mario Kart which has over 2.2mil views and his channel has over five million subs. I wouldn't be surpised if that was a much better value (value is the operative word here) than paying Liam Neeson for a TV spot.

Additionally, as I stated earlier, Nintendo also had the number one advertisement over holiday 2014 according to an Analytics firm. They also have a number of advertisements (which are fairly typical gameplay+voiceover ads) airing on kids channels like Cartoon Network, where impressionable viewers would be watching. They haven't been advertising as much as I think they should on standard television, but the people who watch standard television are much less likely to be influenced by a console gaming related commercial.

I think Nintendo understands that dropping obscene amounts of money on Super Bowl spots with Liam Neeson just isn't worth it for what would likely be an insignificant increase in sales. I think this attitude shows their focus for the generation on small profits as opposed to market share, which is sort of the only "win" position they have right now, due to their screw ups early gen (early gen Wii U advertisement (and naming) was terrible...3DS was lucky to have dug itself out of that hole).

I don't think youtube helps as muh as people think it does (though I realize that I could be wrong). 2.2 m views could mean anything, really. You have people looking up videos for x game that they already have or were planning on buying anyway, you have people rewatching the video because they like either the youtuber or the game itself and then you have the trolls who watch to troll the video. Sure, it's a very cheap way to advertise but at the end of the day Ninty's presense in the mainstream is disappearing and that could affect sales of future consoles and games. I think wiiu needs mainstream exposure and it's not getting it like that. 

In their efforts to "win" like you said by making a small profit, I feel like they're becoming irrelevant. They went from having one of the hottest products (wii) to the butt of the joke (it's so easy for especially young people to turn on you; praise ninty for wii and then trash wiiu the next day). We've seen that happen with celebrities as well. Lady Gaga praised as the mesiah of music and then dismissed as soon as her sales started to fall. All this negativity that Ninty is getting because of its sales makes people forget that quality titles are still there. Ads on children's programs and youtube videos are not gonna cut it, if Ninty wants to be a powerful and respected company again.  

All companies have their teams who tell them what and where to advertise. It doesn't mean they're always right. There've been many examples of poor decisions over the years from MS and Sony as well. 

@bolded Number one in terms of what exactly?



torok on 09 February 2015
HollyGamer said:
Nintendo handled gaming market have been invaded by smartphone, blame iphone and android for that. They need to create another market or compete with the same price and technology in the future if they still want to competing on the same market segment.


They became casual/kid/handheld kings and them mobile devices just stole all these markets. And now the core market is on Sony/MS hands. Their strategy is absolutely out of touch with the reality.



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.