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Forums - Sony Discussion - Naughty Dog won't push Uncharted 4 to 60fps if it compromises player experience

torok said:
episteme said:
kljesta64 said:
why dont they do 40fps ?

Most monitors have a 60Hz refresh rate. Every frame gets duplicated at locked 30FPS and 60FPS is obviously no problem.

40FPS would be problemetic because some frames would be displayed twice and some only once.


A good V-sync solution can solve this. Killzone and InFamous had a variable framerate (35-45 fps) and it works great and have that 60 fps feel without stutter (patched InFamous, regular KZ) or tearing. You just have to do a good solution to sync frames and you are good to go.

Hm, Killzone and inFamous had options to lock it to 30FPS.

Are you sure they had no judder with unlocked framerates? Some people are more sensitive to judder than others, I prefer unlocked 45FPS to 30 locked, but others prefer 30 locked.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
Nem said:
Not running at 60fps compromises the player experience.

You know very well that is debatable. Uncharted 4 is going to be the biggest game yet and everyone knows Naughty Dog had to make sacrifices and use tricks to get the game to run as well as we got it. If it cannot run at 60 they need to lock it at sub 60. Sony already got sued for KZ's multiplayer running at 900p instead of 1080 like the storyline. They should stick to their word. 


Its not debatable, its fact. Every game benefits from 60fps, even though some more than others. 

The problem is that not every gamer is tight enough with their gaming to notice. I honestly struggle to understand those that say there isnt a difference because for me its a dramatic difference. I will sacrifice particle effects, AI, fidelity and polygons if it means i get smooth, responsive and fun gameplay.

10 years from now when you play the game the eye candy will be outdated and mean nothing while the 60fps gives you a timeless classic based on smooth and fun gameplay.



Stable 30 with glorified features is better than 60 fps that looks like shit. That is my preference though.



60fps is an unnecessary luxury



Nem said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

You know very well that is debatable. Uncharted 4 is going to be the biggest game yet and everyone knows Naughty Dog had to make sacrifices and use tricks to get the game to run as well as we got it. If it cannot run at 60 they need to lock it at sub 60. Sony already got sued for KZ's multiplayer running at 900p instead of 1080 like the storyline. They should stick to their word. 


Its not debatable, its fact. Every game benefits from 60fps, even though some more than others. 

The problem is that not every gamer is tight enough with their gaming to notice. I honestly struggle to understand those that say there isnt a difference because for me its a dramatic difference. I will sacrifice particle effects, AI and polygons if it means i get smooth, responsive and fun gameplay.

Of course 60fps itself is inherently better than 30fps, but the debate is what's better between 60fps vs 30fps/variable + [x]. For many people, the latter is often the better choice. For many others, the former is the way to go. It's mostly a matter of preference.

Knowing that you can't please everyone, it's best for the developer to decide what they think is best for their game and the audience that will be playing it. All ND is really saying here is that if they believe [x] adds more to the experiences for their players (though they don't specify what), then naturally they're going to pick that.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
Nem said:
Not running at 60fps compromises the player experience.

You know very well that is debatable. Uncharted 4 is going to be the biggest game yet and everyone knows Naughty Dog had to make sacrifices and use tricks to get the game to run as well as we got it. If it cannot run at 60 they need to lock it at sub 60. Sony already got sued for KZ's multiplayer running at 900p instead of 1080 like the storyline. They should stick to their word. 

No, they're getting sued for marketing the simulated 1080p (2 interlaces 960 x 1080 frames with a predication algorithm to properly sync the two) as native 1080p. The debate right now is what "native" actually means, since the standard definition puts Killzone is somewhat of a grey area.

To be honest the whole situation is silly. Regardless to if they win or lose, GG and Sony should have been open about the technique from the start. It's a damn cool bit of tech, and something many games could benefit from using (though the prediction algorithm needs some work).



Honestly I want 30fps and something closer to the initial reveal. The demo looked great but not the leap I was hoping for.

Having said that there are 28 numbers between 30 and 60 and it shouldn't be 60fps or nothing. I'm playing around in Unreal engine 4 at the moment and 35fps is even notable over 30fps.



episteme said:

Hm, Killzone and inFamous had options to lock it to 30FPS.

Are you sure they had no judder with unlocked framerates? Some people are more sensitive to judder than others, I prefer unlocked 45FPS to 30 locked, but others prefer 30 locked.

InFamous had visible judder before the day one patch, but it solved it. Killzone never had any problem for me. I normally notice judder easily, my aging PC GPU (GTX 650) has some troubles with modern games and sometimes I end up with games that flutuate from 30 to 40-50 fps and it judders a lot (V-sync isn't an option since it normally has a big hit in performance and that's something I can't afford). Thief on PS4 and PC was a stutter festival, as an example. But in some months I will get my 970 and everything will be nice and smooth again.

About locked vs unlocked, I prefer an unlocked fps if, and only if, it comes with a v-sync solution that avoids stuttering. I can even live with small tearing, but stuttering is a deal breaker for me. So the order would be: unlocked with good v-sync > 30 locked >>> unlocked with tearing  >>>>>>>>>>> unlocked with stuttering.



GribbleGrunger said:
I think it's quite simple really. I have never been able to tell if a game ran at 30fps or 60fps until I played TLOUR. I played for a while and then switched to 30fps and could see the difference. The following day I then played a game on my PS3 and I was back to not noticing. NOW, if this game can run at 60fps most of the time but drop drastically with huge set pieces, because I have a point of reference within the same game, I'm going to notice immediately. This will spoil my experience.

I experienced the exact same. When directly switching between the two, the difference is quite big. However If you're only offered 30fps to begin with, your eyes except it as a smooth image. 



I wouldn't mind 60 fps but that is a luxury and I'd rather have them create it at 30 fps rather than having to downgrade the rest of the game's performance just to reach a higher fps.