mainland europeans dont care about gimmick they want the strongest hardware/price ratio and free online. German economy is in better shape than spain yet xbox 1 gets outsold 1 to 5 by the ps4

Problem isn't the hardware but software. Looking at the games on Wii U, Nintendo seem to be more interested in shoving stuff like Miiverse up everyones asses and recycling content rather than creating software people would want. Gamepad feels gimmicky because the software isn't taking advantage of it. The customers are seeing and feeling Nintendo doesn't respect the customer. What Nintendo did with Wii U is what all the talking heads thought Nintendo should be doing doing the Wii. This, however, isn't what the customer wanted (which should be obvious by looking at the Wii sales).

So wii u numbers of.7.5 million were sold through not shipped? cos them numbers caused outroar on here huge debates on wether they were shipped or sold? anyone remember?

Losing what?  They are making a profit on every console sold are they?  Correct me if I'm wrong.  Plus console sells don't equal to whether or not a console is gaming first or gimmick.  The reason PS4s or selling so well is hype and name. Thats it.  That's been the case since the first PS. As for the game pad, of the people who own one, most like it. You read it all time of people who didn't like the idea then love it after trying.  But like I said,  the game pad has more than proven it's viability for gaming.  But it ain't for everybody. 

They're actually not. They're just not losing money anymore since they managed to ship the 9 million they had manufactured this past March (May?).  Whether these new consoles they're going to manufacture are at profit is anyone's guess.  Mine is that it isn't.  They've done nothing to optimize the hardware development and they can't get any volume pricing on anything.  There's only a limited amount of manufacturers still making PowerPC, let alone their custom chip which leads me to believe pricing on hardware hasn't gone down much.  It's possible pricing might have gone down to break even.

Sony dont mind taking a hit on the cost of the systems in order to make a more well rounded/powerful product for the consumer unlike nintendo the last few gens.  Also everyone knows  its the software where the major profits are generally in the gaming industry.  The hardware is just a delivery device just like with blu-ray. 

As far as name and hype selling the product going back to the ps1 days...dont make me laugh sony has, and always will win off their superior business plan (including yes marketing) and game lineup, and to pretend otherwise is to ignore how much they have dominated this industry for 20 years.  In no small part because nintendo refused to get with the times, and innovate starting with the disk vs cartridge decision that gave birth to the playstation in the first place.

Not that professional actually. It really just talked about why the PS4 is better than the other consoles.

Further more, just talking about PS4 vs Xbox One is not a console war, it is two consoles, but maybe WE FORGOT ONE console.

Sony played it well in front of the public, but i think they rushed some games that could have used a few more months of work on them like killzone ( which was the worst one in the series since the original ) and should have not put the stupid touch pad on the controller. Overall though i think the ps4 is their best designed system and controller yet, very happy with those decisions from them. The only thing i am worried about from sony is if they , become a arrogant or a-hole like they were in the ps2 and half of the ps3 life span. Because if they start to go down that road again, i think they will open the door for m$ to come back into this generation very quickly and will have a leg up for the next generation as well, i for one wont go with sony if they become that company i hated so much.

Yep, but there is some truth too: it's quite difficult sometimes to listen correctly to the real majority of gamers and fulfil their needs without exceeding and making a system too expensive and power hungry. Listening to the very vocal minority of power whores and mistaking them for the majority could persuade a producer to make a 600W, $1000 console that only a minority would buy, just to make an example.
But Sony knows too that people expects quite a powerful console from it, even if not a monster, and it guessed the right balance, or rather it almost did, we know it initially planned to equip PS4 with 4GB GDDR5 RAM, then its price dropped faster than expected and it was able to double it to 8GB, making it more powerful and successful without becoming too expensive, while MS committed many mistakes before correcting them, so most probably Sony knew it made a very good system, but it's still surprised it was helped so much by good luck and competitors' mistakes, exceeding its expectations (now we know it exceeded them for Chinese launch too).

Yet Nintendo manage to deliver a around solid product known for quailty. They also are making money off software. Still doesn't mean the PS4 is any more or less a gaming console.

It is hype. For you to deny that is laughable. If what you say is true, then the X1 would selling just as much. Both are simular which is why people refer to them as twins. Why is the Sony brand so much more popular in Europe? Because of hype, popularity, and name. By the way, the game pad is innovtion. How you can accuse Nintindo of not being innovative is more laughable than anything.