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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Should gamers be able to get a refund if a game is broken at launch such as Unity and Halo: MCC?

 

Should you be able to get a refund for a broken game?

Yeah, gimme back my cash. 134 82.21%
 
No, I like to support bro... 10 6.13%
 
Yo Mama 19 11.66%
 
Total:163
VanceIX said:
UltimateUnknown said:

You can't trust games to not be broken. You can't trust advertisements. You can't trust pre-release footage. You can't trust professional reviewers. You can't trust reviews for the first week. Do you see how complicated this whole process is getting? We just want to play a game that is like it is advertised and delivers what the developer tells us. Like seriously, why is this process so frigin difficult where I've now got to jump through so many hoops just to get a working game that I think I'll enjoy?

Also if EVERY user started doing what you are suggesting, that is wait a week and find reviews, then there would be no user reviews because everyone would be waiting for reviews that would never come out. In other words someone somewhere is taking the fall just so that you can see if the game is truly playable at launch since you just stated we can no longer trust professional reviewers who get the games early. No one should have to take the fall.

*sigh*

Look, what I'm saying is that you need to take a variety of opinions in to view. Take some gamer feedback (because there will always be some people that buy the game just to review it, even if they aren't professional critics, and also hardcore fans of the developer/publisher will buy the game) and some critic feedback in to account when purchasing. It's not nearly as hard as you make it sound like. You're acting like you have to write an essay on the game, when you don't. All you need to do is do a google search and look what people are saying about the game on websites with forums. Alos look at some youtube clips from gamers to see what the user experience is like. It takes just a couple of minutes, not hours, and it saves you from a bad purchase. That's how every purchase is like.

Not doing some prior research is just being lazy. Do you not do a bit of research before buying a car or a console? Just spend a fraction of that time looking to see what others are saying about the game. There. Mission accomplished. Nothing painful about it.

And this whole refund thing? Terrible idea, and I've listed my reasons in the post above. It would be abused to hell by consumers.

I don't quite agree with your viewpoint of some other *loyal* consumer essentially taking the fall in your place just so that the rest of the world can realise that game is not functioning properly.

And I have done my research. I have spent time looking at trailers, gameplay demos from events, developer interviews, etc and I have made up my mind that I want to experience this game because it sounds promising. I just want the game to work. I'm not asking them to refund me if I dislike the game's mechanics. It's just if the game isn't working.

It's like buying a washing machine. I've done my research. I know how fast it spins, how much water it uses, how big its volume is and I've decided its right for me. I buy the washing machine, bring it home only to find that there is a hole in the back that causes water to leak. In that case I will certainly get a refund because th product doesn't work. It's not a matter of bad features (such as a washing machine having a very slow RPM which is all on me if I buy it knowing this), it's just that it doesn't work properly.

If a video game similarly just doesn't work, which is true in many of these multiplayer games at launch, it should be the same as any other electronic product that doesn't work.



 

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Let 2014 be a warning for those who bought so called AAA games on day one. Make sure to research what you're buying... You don't want to pay $64 for a beta.

Or even better, don't buy games developed by western studios on day one.



UltimateUnknown said:
VanceIX said:
UltimateUnknown said:

You can't trust games to not be broken. You can't trust advertisements. You can't trust pre-release footage. You can't trust professional reviewers. You can't trust reviews for the first week. Do you see how complicated this whole process is getting? We just want to play a game that is like it is advertised and delivers what the developer tells us. Like seriously, why is this process so frigin difficult where I've now got to jump through so many hoops just to get a working game that I think I'll enjoy?

Also if EVERY user started doing what you are suggesting, that is wait a week and find reviews, then there would be no user reviews because everyone would be waiting for reviews that would never come out. In other words someone somewhere is taking the fall just so that you can see if the game is truly playable at launch since you just stated we can no longer trust professional reviewers who get the games early. No one should have to take the fall.

*sigh*

Look, what I'm saying is that you need to take a variety of opinions in to view. Take some gamer feedback (because there will always be some people that buy the game just to review it, even if they aren't professional critics, and also hardcore fans of the developer/publisher will buy the game) and some critic feedback in to account when purchasing. It's not nearly as hard as you make it sound like. You're acting like you have to write an essay on the game, when you don't. All you need to do is do a google search and look what people are saying about the game on websites with forums. Alos look at some youtube clips from gamers to see what the user experience is like. It takes just a couple of minutes, not hours, and it saves you from a bad purchase. That's how every purchase is like.

Not doing some prior research is just being lazy. Do you not do a bit of research before buying a car or a console? Just spend a fraction of that time looking to see what others are saying about the game. There. Mission accomplished. Nothing painful about it.

And this whole refund thing? Terrible idea, and I've listed my reasons in the post above. It would be abused to hell by consumers.

I don't quite agree with your viewpoint of some other *loyal* consumer essentially taking the fall in your place just so that the rest of the world can realise that game is not functioning properly.

And I have done my research. I have spent time looking at trailers, gameplay demos from events, developer interviews, etc and I have made up my mind that I want to experience this game because it sounds promising. I just want the game to work. I'm not asking them to refund me if I dislike the game's mechanics. It's just if the game isn't working.

It's like buying a washing machine. I've done my research. I know how fast it spins, how much water it uses, how big its volume is and I've decided its right for me. I buy the washing machine, bring it home only to find that there is a hole in the back that causes water to leak. In that case I will certainly get a refund because th product doesn't work. It's not a matter of bad features (such as a washing machine having a very slow RPM which is all on me if I buy it knowing this), it's just that it doesn't work properly.

If a video game similarly just doesn't work, which is true in many of these multiplayer games at launch, it should be the same as any other electronic product that doesn't work.

So now you're just twisting my words. Why in the world would make your decision off of developer interviews and trailers? That's your own terrible decision. There are fans of the series that will buy the game because they will love it regardless of bugs and such, you can listen to their feedback on it. What's wrong with that? And how about the great critics out there that give it like they see it? Not everyone is untrustworthy. And please tell me how this refund system could ever possibly work. I've already said why it was impossible, so I want to hear your reasoning, because right now this is just impossible to work with. Everything you've said sounds downright unreasonable, so I'd like a better explanation on how you would pull off these refunds without leaving any possiblility for the policy to be abused.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

VanceIX said:
UltimateUnknown said:
VanceIX said:
UltimateUnknown said:

You can't trust games to not be broken. You can't trust advertisements. You can't trust pre-release footage. You can't trust professional reviewers. You can't trust reviews for the first week. Do you see how complicated this whole process is getting? We just want to play a game that is like it is advertised and delivers what the developer tells us. Like seriously, why is this process so frigin difficult where I've now got to jump through so many hoops just to get a working game that I think I'll enjoy?

Also if EVERY user started doing what you are suggesting, that is wait a week and find reviews, then there would be no user reviews because everyone would be waiting for reviews that would never come out. In other words someone somewhere is taking the fall just so that you can see if the game is truly playable at launch since you just stated we can no longer trust professional reviewers who get the games early. No one should have to take the fall.

*sigh*

Look, what I'm saying is that you need to take a variety of opinions in to view. Take some gamer feedback (because there will always be some people that buy the game just to review it, even if they aren't professional critics, and also hardcore fans of the developer/publisher will buy the game) and some critic feedback in to account when purchasing. It's not nearly as hard as you make it sound like. You're acting like you have to write an essay on the game, when you don't. All you need to do is do a google search and look what people are saying about the game on websites with forums. Alos look at some youtube clips from gamers to see what the user experience is like. It takes just a couple of minutes, not hours, and it saves you from a bad purchase. That's how every purchase is like.

Not doing some prior research is just being lazy. Do you not do a bit of research before buying a car or a console? Just spend a fraction of that time looking to see what others are saying about the game. There. Mission accomplished. Nothing painful about it.

And this whole refund thing? Terrible idea, and I've listed my reasons in the post above. It would be abused to hell by consumers.

I don't quite agree with your viewpoint of some other *loyal* consumer essentially taking the fall in your place just so that the rest of the world can realise that game is not functioning properly.

And I have done my research. I have spent time looking at trailers, gameplay demos from events, developer interviews, etc and I have made up my mind that I want to experience this game because it sounds promising. I just want the game to work. I'm not asking them to refund me if I dislike the game's mechanics. It's just if the game isn't working.

It's like buying a washing machine. I've done my research. I know how fast it spins, how much water it uses, how big its volume is and I've decided its right for me. I buy the washing machine, bring it home only to find that there is a hole in the back that causes water to leak. In that case I will certainly get a refund because th product doesn't work. It's not a matter of bad features (such as a washing machine having a very slow RPM which is all on me if I buy it knowing this), it's just that it doesn't work properly.

If a video game similarly just doesn't work, which is true in many of these multiplayer games at launch, it should be the same as any other electronic product that doesn't work.

So now you're just twisting my words. Why in the world would make your decision off of developer interviews and trailers? That's your own terrible decision. There are fans of the series that will buy the game because they will love it regardless, you can listen to their feedback on it. What's wrong with that? And how about the great critics out there that give it like they see it? Not everyone is untrustworthy. And please tell me how this refund system could ever possibly work. I've already said why it was impossible, so I want to hear your reasoning, because right now this is just impossible to work with.

You are not understanding the point. The people that you are calling loyal customers who will buy the game regardless of its state don't want a product that doesn't work.

I have bought games day one, say pokemon Omega Ruby because I know I love Pokemon and I loved the originals. I watched the trailers and saw the new features they have in the game and loved it. That doesn't mean I'm okay with getting a game that will not work at launch. Loyalty does not equal me being okay with a broken game. I'm sure that is the case for every loyal fan. They aren't buying the game thinking that they'll be fine even if the game doesn't work. They are buying it knowing that they are most likely going to enjoy the mechanics inside of a properly functioning game.

And just the statement that I can no longer trust the very person who made the game is what is probably most ridiculous about the situation. We have come to the point where I can no longer believe what the very people who make the game (and know the game better than anyone else) say about their game. I find that very disturbing.



 

UltimateUnknown said:

You are not understanding the point. The people that you are calling loyal customers who will buy the game regardless of its state don't want a product that doesn't work.

I have bought games day one, say pokemon Omega Ruby because I know I love Pokemon and I loved the originals. I watched the trailers and saw the new features they have in the game and loved it. That doesn't mean I'm okay with getting a game that will not work at launch. Loyalty does not equal me being okay with a broken game. I'm sure that is the case for every loyal fan. They aren't buying the game thinking that they'll be fine even if the game doesn't work. They are buying it knowing that they are most likely going to enjoy the mechanics inside of a properly functioning game.

And just the statement that I can no longer trust the very person who made the game is what is probably most ridiculous about the situation. We have come to the point where I can no longer believe what the very people who make the game (and know the game better than anyone else) say about their game. I find that very disturbing.

Really? Then I encourage you to go look up the Reddit pages for Halo and AC. There are tons of people that still like MCC and Unity, but also list some of their criticisms about the game. The kind of people that have no regrets about buying the game, but also have some frustrations that they share with those who have yet to buy them. Not to mention that there are dozens of good reviewers that wait until the game is released to form an opinion on the final product, and you can certainly trust those. You want to be able to 100% believe the people trying to sell the game? I don't think you know how the market works. They have a VERY biased opinion, and trusting them is not at all a good decision.

What I got out of this post is that you don't want to make the effort to become a better informed consumer. You don't want to research a product before you buy it. You don't want to be liable for a bad purchase. You want everything that you buy to be guaranteed perfect exactly how you bought it at launch. Newflash- that's not how the world works. There are bad products out there, and it is up to you to be able to research them and know what is good and what is bad. 

And I'm still waiting on you to explain how this entire refund thing is even going to work. Video games are a media form that can be used, finished, and sold in less than a day. Just like music and movies, there is no guarantee that someone won't just finish the media and try to return it claiming that they had some niche bug that was game breaking. There is a reason that media like video games, movies, and music generally have very restricting return policies. You would make tons of devs out there lose millions of dollars just because one or two games were broken at launch that you didn't anticipate or research on. Literally every developer and publisher in the industry would suffer if this happened.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

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I don't really think that they should be garenteed a refund.



VanceIX said:
UltimateUnknown said:

You are not understanding the point. The people that you are calling loyal customers who will buy the game regardless of its state don't want a product that doesn't work.

I have bought games day one, say pokemon Omega Ruby because I know I love Pokemon and I loved the originals. I watched the trailers and saw the new features they have in the game and loved it. That doesn't mean I'm okay with getting a game that will not work at launch. Loyalty does not equal me being okay with a broken game. I'm sure that is the case for every loyal fan. They aren't buying the game thinking that they'll be fine even if the game doesn't work. They are buying it knowing that they are most likely going to enjoy the mechanics inside of a properly functioning game.

And just the statement that I can no longer trust the very person who made the game is what is probably most ridiculous about the situation. We have come to the point where I can no longer believe what the very people who make the game (and know the game better than anyone else) say about their game. I find that very disturbing.

Really? Then I encourage you to go look up the Reddit pages for Halo and AC. There are tons of people that still like MCC and Unity, but also list some of their criticisms about the game. The kind of people that have no regrets about buying the game, but also have some frustrations that they share with those who have yet to buy them. Not to mention that there are dozens of good reviewers that wait until the game is released to form an opinion on the final product, and you can certainly trust those. You want to be able to 100% believe the people trying to sell the game? I don't think you know how the market works. They have a VERY biased opinion, and trusting them is not at all a good decision.

What I got out of this post is that you don't want to make the effort to become a better informed consumer. You don't want to research a product before you buy it. You don't want to be liable for a bad purchase. You want everything that you buy to be guaranteed perfect exactly how you bought it at launch. Newflash- that's not how the world works. There are bad products out there, and it is up to you to be able to research them and know what is good and what is bad. 

And I'm still waiting on you to explain how this entire refund thing is even going to work. Video games are a media form that can be used, finished, and sold in less than a day. Just like music and movies, there is no guarantee that someone won't just finish the media and try to return it claiming that they had some niche bug that was game breaking. There is a reason that media like video games, movies, and music generally have very restricting return policies. You would make tons of devs out there lose millions of dollars just because one or two games were broken at launch that you didn't anticipate or research on. Literally every developer and publisher in the industry would suffer if this happened.

You just don't understand and I don't think you will. I'm not talking about whether a game is good or bad. I just want a game that works. Nothing more. Nothing less. If I buy a bad game, then I have no problem taking responsibility. But if I buy a broken game, then that is the problem of the developer.

And as others have mentioned before, there are already refund policies certain retailers use with a 12/24 hour trial limit. If your game has so little value that people are okay with returning it in less than a day, then that is another issue that should be at the drawing board. When I play a good game, after a day I am left wanting to go back to the game after work, not wanting to take it back to the store after work. 



 

Is Unity broken? It just runs like crap.



 

                          

 

UltimateUnknown said:

You just don't understand and I don't think you will. I'm not talking about whether a game is good or bad. I just want a game that works. Nothing more. Nothing less. If I buy a bad game, then I have no problem taking responsibility. But if I buy a broken game, then that is the problem of the developer.

And as others have mentioned before, there are already refund policies certain retailers use with a 12/24 hour trial limit. If your game has so little value that people are okay with returning it in less than a day, then that is another issue that should be at the drawing board. When I play a good game, after a day I am left wanting to go back to the game after work, not wanting to take it back to the store after work. 


Oh I understand, but you're just making roundabout arguments with no substenance. What, you think I like broken games? No, but I am a realist about this kind of stuff, and what you are suggesting is sensationalist to the max and a knee-jerk reaction to a couple of bad games that came out around the same time. Lots of people will agree with you because of your terrible poll, but what you are suggesting isn't even feasible.

And a 24hr trial is going to do nothing towards mitigating the issue. For a lot of people, those 24 hours are spent downloading a patch. Others buy a game coming home from work, go to bed, go to work, and then play the game the next night, and by then 24 hours is up. Or how about the people that don't play the part of the game that is broken right away? For example, with MCC, tons of people played the (mostly) fine single player campaign before jumpinging into the multiplayer, and by the time they started 24 hours was long gone.

Every gamer has a different way to play and different experiences. Any kind of refund policy would absolutely fail for this media. 24 hours isn't enough to tell if a game is broken for most people, especially if the bug isn't even encounterable until later. On the other hand, any more than that and you risk people beating the game and returning it, claiming they ran in to game breaking bugs just so they can get another game.

That is the reason that you can't have a solid refund policy with media forms like games, movies, and music. Do I symapthise? Yes. I bought both MCC and Unity for Pete's sake, and Unity was a pre-order. I waited to buy MCC because I knew it might have online issues, but I screwed up big time with Unity. I'm not going to ask for a refund policy, though, because it was my decision to buy it. I should have known better, and now I do.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

VanceIX said:

That is the reason that you can't have a solid refund policy with media forms like games, movies, and music. Do I symapthise? Yes. I bought both MCC and Unity for Pete's sake, and Unity was a pre-order. I waited to buy MCC because I knew it might have online issues, but I screwed up big time with Unity. I'm not going to ask for a refund policy, though, because it was my decision to buy it. I should have known better, and now I do.

So you're saying it was your fault for buying Unity and trusting that the game would function. The devs shouldn't have to take any responsibility for the mess it was on launch. I think you and I already know that answer. 

While I could blame you for buying Unity at launch or pre-ordering it, not looking at the reviews, not reading user feedback, I won't. Because I know why you bought the game. Because you probably liked the concept of it and had the simple expectation for it to run without game breaking bugs. It never had anything to do with bad game design.

Look I don't want a refund because I want to give back my game. I want to keep my games, and I keep almost every game I purchase, whether I like the game design or not. But the concept of a refund is only there to encourage developers to fix their broken game prior to launch (not after launch). I want to enjoy the game on day one, not wait a month after launch. A whole bunch of us should not be beta (or even alpha) testers for their games because of our loyalty/trust.