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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Miyamoto: 'What can games learn from film? Nothing'

first create good gameplay mechanics. close it and make sure it is a good experience
then create the story.

simple.



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Mnementh said:
SanAndreasX said:

He's exactly right on this one. The industry is loaded with wannabe filmmakers and game companies that wish they were movie companies *cough*Ubisoft*cough* They should go make movies if that's the way they feel about it, but the fact is, if their movies were written like their games, they'd be sodomized by film critics.

This. Games have very bad stories and wouldn't stand a chance in the movie business. Usually I don't care much, because the game offers something else - gameplay. Entertainment tries to produce emotions in the consumer. There are different ways to do that: story, images, music and so on. Some try to get fun, some sadness, some empathy, but all try to create emotions. That's true for literature, games and movies. This is that they have to succeed at, and so far, games are not very successful to reach that goal through story, but successful in creating emotions through gameplay.

Just as an example: the Tomb Raider restart tries to be a story-driven game. Some people die in the course of the game, that the heroine Lara Croft is caring about. In movies or books it is mostly important, that the reader/watcher gets the emotions the hero has, to be able to tune into the story. So we usually should care about people that the hero cares about. And Tomb Raider fails at that. Lara is crushed about the death of Conrad Roth - and I didn't care. I didn't know the man, and the game does nearly nothing to make him important for us players. I care even less, because I can do nothing about his death. I control Lara, but he dies in a cutscene. It would be much more emotional, if I had been able to save him, if my skill at playing the game would be better. But I have no chance at all.

Let's take a look at Deus Ex: Human Revolution in contrast. Faridah Malik is with us in many scenes so that we feel we know her better. Even more, I have a chance to make a sidequest for her, that illuminates her backstory. That alone makes me care more about her, than about Roth. But to top it: I have the chance to save her, if I'm fast enough. That all makes me caring if I fail at saving her. Does Deus Ex:HR has a good story? Not at all, it would be horrible as a movie without changes. But it still is able to put an emotional bond to characters in a way a movie never could.

More so: Pikmin. I do care if a Pikmin dies. Why? They make cute noises and work hard for me. They SCREAM if a bug eats them. They have total trust in me and do everything I say. And if they die it is always my fault as a player.So a game with a barely existing childish story is able to make me care more about creatures that don't even have individual names than Tomb Raider is able to make me care about Lara's father figure.

So why shoudl I pay $/€ 50 for a wannabe movie with crappy story, if I can purchase a proper movie for $/€ 20? But I'm willing to pay said $/€ 50, if I get more than a movie.

I agree very much with this post except that...

killing Pikmin is not always the player's fault

(damn bridges!)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

To everyone that might say "fucking wrong Games can learn how to do storytelling from film"

WRONG!

Film learned how to do storytelling from TEXT(books etc) So games copying movies would automatically mean copying text.

No need to "copy" therefore no reason to copy film at all.



teigaga said:
KoiIroRazu said:
My sentiments exactly. And that's why I hate games like TLOU. Games are about fun and I don't know why people always want to get taken out of the game, by getting unnecessary story shoved into their faces.
I'm not saying that story driven games are terrible and neither does Miyamoto, it's just that he is saddened by the fact, that the focus of many game developers is shifting towards something else than.... well.... fun.
I don't know why people are getting upset by his opinion only because it's contrary to theirs.


I don't think games about 'fun'... they're about reward and that comes in a multitude of forms.

Do you, by saying "reward" mean something like entertainment or amusement? If so, I agree with you.



It seems to me the author of the piece is mucking up the shit a bit by paraphrasing, or more, projecting what he feels (or more likely, wants) Miyamoto's words to mean. To say games can't learn anything from film is close-minded and ludicrous, just as much as the converse of that assertion.



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KoiIroRazu said:
teigaga said:
KoiIroRazu said:
My sentiments exactly. And that's why I hate games like TLOU. Games are about fun and I don't know why people always want to get taken out of the game, by getting unnecessary story shoved into their faces.
I'm not saying that story driven games are terrible and neither does Miyamoto, it's just that he is saddened by the fact, that the focus of many game developers is shifting towards something else than.... well.... fun.
I don't know why people are getting upset by his opinion only because it's contrary to theirs.


I don't think games about 'fun'... they're about reward and that comes in a multitude of forms.

Do you, by saying "reward" mean something like entertainment or amusement? If so, I agree with you.

Yeah, your entertainment isn't necessarily dependant on 'fun'. A game could be terryfying or engross you with a sense of wonder. These feelings can be responsible for your enjoyment but it doesn't necessarily equate to 'fun'. I wouldn't call Journey a fun experience but its one of the best I've had in gaming ever.



Rafux said:
Mnementh said:
Rafux said:
I love Miyamoto! So glad you and Kojima agree games are not art. Games should be fun above all.

Where did he(or Kojima) said games are no art. There are many art-forms without story, paintings for instance. They are still art.

Games use art in them buy they are not art in itself, games are toys like monopoly or dungeon and dragons. Google Kojima on the subject, art can be anything but games are toys therefore they must be fun to play first and above all.

There I doesn't read that games are not art. Something that makes fun can be very well art. And you cite Kojima, there did Miyamoto said something about games as artform? You take things too far if you conclude from a focus on fun, that fun-things aren't art. I think you don't understand art very well.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

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teigaga said:

Yeah, your entertainment isn't necessarily dependant on 'fun'. A game could be terryfying or engross you with a sense of wonder. These feelings can be responsible for your enjoyment but it doesn't necessarily equate to 'fun'. I wouldn't call Journey a fun experience but its one of the best I've had in gaming ever.

I agree with that in part. Although I would say in a sense this is fun too. A horror-movie induces not fun directly, but still it is fun to watch one. So Journey maybe isn't directly inducing fun, but the emotions that are induced by the game make playing it a fun experience.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Pavolink said:
I agree with you Miya. First and foremost these are videogames and we must play it, not just look at it and brag about great graphics. We should be fighting for games with great gameplay and experiences, and not for polygons and textures.

Anyway, you won't be undertood by those who don't like Nintendo.

this +1

gameplay wise, the industry is not evolving in fact its stuck rigth now, all that the games are pusihing are more poligons and particles and  more NPC on the map, but that  is just the same gameplay  from 1996, in the gameplay department this industry is stuck since 1996, the problem is business wise is the only aproach that seems to work for companys like ubisoft or EA, and yes sony and ms. its a shame  general players only want TLOU and that kind of games where the gameplay is 1996 with graphics from 2011 :)



34 years playing games.

 

Mnementh said:
Rafux said:
Mnementh said:
Rafux said:
I love Miyamoto! So glad you and Kojima agree games are not art. Games should be fun above all.

Where did he(or Kojima) said games are no art. There are many art-forms without story, paintings for instance. They are still art.

Games use art in them buy they are not art in itself, games are toys like monopoly or dungeon and dragons. Google Kojima on the subject, art can be anything but games are toys therefore they must be fun to play first and above all.

There I doesn't read that games are not art. Something that makes fun can be very well art. And you cite Kojima, there did Miyamoto said something about games as artform? You take things too far if you conclude from a focus on fun, that fun-things aren't art. I think you don't understand art very well.

Learn to read, art can be anything it can be fun but it also doesnt have to be fun to be art, it can be anything.

Games HAVE to be fun above all, thats the catch. A game can't be just an expression and have no fun gameplay mechanics at all it would not be a game at all. Games have literature, drawings and music yet they just use them like a museum would use art to atract viewers but the museum is not art in itself.

Belive what you want though.