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Forums - Nintendo - Can anyone say to me why nintendo shos us a grpahic and than they use another in ZELDA U??

GTAexpert on 04 November 2014
bigtakilla said:
I think everyone here who isn't in awe of the amount of detail that has been put into the actual Legend Of Zelda Wii U game is crazy. Every blade of grass seems to blow individually in the wind, the embers, plumes of smoke, and kicked up dirt coming off of the grass that have been caught on fire with the monster's laser eye, the entirety of the Epona animation, the fog and the clouds rolling in (and actually changing shape and density), to just how many things between the butterflies, and villagers, and goats were on screen. I'm blown away by it, cell shaded or not.

Its pretty detailed, but that's not the point of this thread. It looks more detailed than the tech demo, but that's not all that the OP wants it to be.



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Lucas-Rio on 04 November 2014
GTAexpert said:
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
 

As I said realistic games don't just have fifty shades of grey in them, they also have a variety of colours. It seems you have only played a few ones which happened to be greyish.

Also I disagree. Colour is not as important in creating a setting as the level design and scale of the world.


I stand on the fact that colour is important. What I dislike the most about the PS3/PS4/XBO era, is that virtually all their games are made with a deep grey filter over the screen. All colours are looking bland on almost every game. There is no life in it. It's technically advanced and complex, but not artistic.

I'm again repeating the fact that many realistic games have variety of colours. I'll show you some pics from PS3/PS4/XBO games.


They are victim of what I describe.

 

First picture has a lot of light, but everything is bland and lacks color. It's basically grey.

Second picture is the most colored one, because of the desert setting, buts it's pretty much a one color level as well with that orange filter. The cloths have no colors and the ruins are grey (which can be understood).

Third one is the worst, everything, from decor to ennemy, including the hero, completely lack any color. The only non grey thing in that screenshot is the fire.

You don't know what grey is. That's all I can say after reading your views on these pics.


If these screenshot are your exemple of what a colourful game is then, we have a deep difference about what is colorful and what is bland.



GTAexpert on 04 November 2014
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
 

You don't know what grey is. That's all I can say after reading your views on these pics.


If these screenshot are your exemple of what a colourful game is then, we have a deep difference about what is colorful and what is bland.

They are not very colourful, but clearly have more colours than just grey. Also colourless =/= bland.



Lucas-Rio on 04 November 2014
GTAexpert said:
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
 

You don't know what grey is. That's all I can say after reading your views on these pics.


If these screenshot are your exemple of what a colourful game is then, we have a deep difference about what is colorful and what is bland.

They are not very colourful, but clearly have more colours than just grey. Also colourless =/= bland.

Grey is an expression which states the fact that these games lacks colors and have a lot of greys, not that the games are in black and white.



GTAexpert on 04 November 2014
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
 

You don't know what grey is. That's all I can say after reading your views on these pics.


If these screenshot are your exemple of what a colourful game is then, we have a deep difference about what is colorful and what is bland.

They are not very colourful, but clearly have more colours than just grey. Also colourless =/= bland.

Grey is an expression which states the fact that these games lacks colors and have a lot of greys, not that the games are in black and white.

Then maybe you're right. They don't have a million shades of different colours, but a few ones which make them look appealing and realistic. I guess you may hate looking at the world around you, it isn't very colourful either



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Lucas-Rio on 04 November 2014
GTAexpert said:
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
 

You don't know what grey is. That's all I can say after reading your views on these pics.


If these screenshot are your exemple of what a colourful game is then, we have a deep difference about what is colorful and what is bland.

They are not very colourful, but clearly have more colours than just grey. Also colourless =/= bland.

Grey is an expression which states the fact that these games lacks colors and have a lot of greys, not that the games are in black and white.

Then maybe you're right. They don't have a million shades of different colours, but a few ones which make them look appealing and realistic. I guess you may hate looking at the world around you, it isn't very colourful either


I admit that if I play videogames, it's generally to see unique and different worlds. Not to see a carbon copy of the reality. Reality that is also more colorfoul than the PS/XB games.



GTAexpert on 04 November 2014
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
Lucas-Rio said:
GTAexpert said:
 

You don't know what grey is. That's all I can say after reading your views on these pics.


If these screenshot are your exemple of what a colourful game is then, we have a deep difference about what is colorful and what is bland.

They are not very colourful, but clearly have more colours than just grey. Also colourless =/= bland.

Grey is an expression which states the fact that these games lacks colors and have a lot of greys, not that the games are in black and white.

Then maybe you're right. They don't have a million shades of different colours, but a few ones which make them look appealing and realistic. I guess you may hate looking at the world around you, it isn't very colourful either


I admit that if I play videogames, it's generally to see unique and different worlds. Not to see a carbon copy of the reality. Reality that is also more colorfoul than the PS/XB games.

If you were talking about GTA IV or Watch Dogs, I would have agreed. But in general realistic games are colourful.



Norris2k on 04 November 2014
mZuzek said:
Norris2k said:

Cartoon is not about weird proportions. Old disney are quite realistic in term of proportion. So explain again how it doesn't look cartoonish.

I do believe cel shading, and such color, are used for the very purpose to make it looks like cartoonish. I'm not the only one to think so, because, the cel-shading is also called "toon shading". And you can check wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cel_shading) , and see that indeed it's often used on that purpose. In fact, I'm not aware of any other purpose.

Basically, you are telling that if you remove what the professional artist and designers from Nintendo used on purpose (cel-shading and colors), you will get a realistic game. Yeah, probably, and that's why they used it there. Because they wanted this cartoonish style. And they do whatever they want, and you like whatever you want, and that's perhaps the best choice. What I'm telling from the beginning is that a tech demo with realistic graphics (including colors, 3D effects, etc.) based on Zelda is not wise, if you deliver again a cartoonish game. I'm talking about the tech demo, mostly.

Old disney is literally cartoon though, as in animated drawings. And there's still a lot of other cartoon traces apart from deformed proportions, I never saw cel-shading on those old disney movies though. Essentially, it's very clear that you consider "cartoonish" everything that isn't hyper realistic, so naturally that would be how you see Zelda Wii U.

And yes, this was the best choice. I'd much rather have another inspired, unique, artistic Zelda than some bland game made for business purposes. I still struggle to believe that the people who wanted Ocarina of Time 2 and were hugely disappointed by it still want Ocarina of Time 3. And I also struggle to believe that anyone truly thinks that tech demo looks better than the actual game.

We have so much disagreements:
1 - I'm telling the tech demo choice is not wise. You want to prove the Zelda U is better.
2 - You think if I say cartoonish it is a bad thing (and the you have to prove it's not cartoonish). I personally like cartoons and believe it can be extremely artistic.
3 - what a cartoon is, because it seems you fail to see the very obvious common points between Alice in wonderland, Dragon Ball, Akira, Renaissance (cel-shading to make it cartoonish) and Zelda Wii U. Do you even know cartoons except for cheap american tv cartoons ? And Akira is very realistic, but still cartoonish.
4 - you don't think that you have to read what other people say. You don't take account of the link I provided to you. Cel-shading is to make it cartoonish. It's called "toon shading". Toon. Like in cartoons.

Only in Nintendo posts I see such a thing. You think that whatever I say is against Nintendo, that I can't see "that is the best choice", you don't even care to read... when I'm just casually telling that they should better stop showing realistic (proportions, colors, etc.) Zelda in tech demo.

Ok, I let you reply if you want, and we are done.



Lucas-Rio on 04 November 2014

Cartoon = Looney toons, Wind Waker

Anime = Dragon Ball, Zelda Wii U



Nuvendil on 04 November 2014

Actually, Toon Shading is a Nintendo-coined term, if memory serves, used to describe the very specific look of Wind Waker. Cel Shading is simply a shading technique used in a number of games: Crackdown, Ni No Kuni, Borderlands, etc.

As for how "toon" this Zelda is, I prefer the term "stylized." Toon implies the whole thing has a toon-ish look, but that is not really the case here. Things like the grass, water textures/shaders, oak vegetation all have varying degrees of realism as do the land forms and rocks and the like. It's much closer to No Man's Sky, where the cel shading is used selectively; Wind Waker intentionally made the whole world look very much like a cartoon in every aspect.