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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Iwata responds to region locking questions

MDMAlliance on 01 November 2014
Teeqoz said:
MDMAlliance said:
Teeqoz said:
HylianSwordsman said:

Again, what is his reasoning then? Just random acts of stupidity and/or evil? Clearly they took a risk with the DS, thought they could do even better financially with region locking the 3DS, and now they see the difference and are considering going back. This is an investor Q&A, after all. It's all about the financial motivations. Saying that he's lying about region locking for financial reasons in an investor meeting is pointless. It's not crap, you just don't like region locking. But then you don't like Nintendo either, so it's not like you really care, you just want an excuse to call Nintendo evil/stupid. It doesn't matter why they didn't care with the DS, what matters is that they decided they did care, and between it being financially motivated to benefit the seller, the obvious reason for all region locking (unless you think it benefits the buyer?), and being a random act with no reasoning behind it, I'm inclined to believe it's financially motivated to benefit the seller, because that makes more sense than acting randomly. It's a basic principle of economics, that people and corporations do what they think is in their best interest at the time. So saying that because they made one decision at one time and a different decision later means the later decision is crap is illogical. The simpler, more logical conclusion is that they changed their minds about that policy based on new reasoning about what would be in their best interest. Now they gave their reasons for it, and I really don't know what more you want from them. I wish it wasn't region locked either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to claim they're lying about their reasons for region locking when they fully admit the financial motivations behind the decision.


From where do you base your claim that I don't like Nintendo? Do you think I have anything against them? Based on what?

Of course they took a risk with the 3DS making it region-locked, and yes it was a stupid decision. Both the DS and the GBA were region free. So was the PSP (except for the PSP's UMDs, but the games were region free.) and then they got a bad idea about region-locking possibly making them money.

 

The first four and a half lines of the answer are pure bullshit. The only thing that isn't is that it's for the sellers sake and not the customer. And ofcourse you choose to look at the only thing that isn't crap instead of the statement as a whole, which is crap.

Like most people who say something is a stupid decision, it's stupid because you don't like it.  I know that's your reasoning because you don't even explain why it's stupid beyond "X and Y is region free" and "I don't like the reasons they gave."  

Pretty much every system has a form of region lock on it, whether they leave it up to the publisher, put it on the hardware, or put it on the software.  The motivation for keeping more strict forms of region lock have a lot to do with how people work around it and how some people abuse the system.  Region lock sounds like a dumb idea until you find out that there are actual legal reasons why it's put into place.  Nintendo doesn't WANT to region lock systems for the sake of region locking them.  Like every other company, Nintendo is interested in making profits.  Given what happened with the DS with flashcarts, I imagine that has a good bit to do with their reversion to their strict region lock.  


How the f*** can you know my reasoning? It's not just that I don't like the decision. I'm saying it was a stupid decision based on what we know now. I might not have said that 4 years ago, but based on what we know now it was not smart.

 

Their reasons for why (besides the general "it's for the sellers"):

1) localization takes a long time. 

Exactly, which is why you shouldn't force people to wait potentially several years to play a game if their okay with playing it in Japanese (or whatever). This might even cost sales, because in the period beetween release and localization all hype might be dead.

2) Marketing deals.

Marketing deals existed during DS era as well, and it both MS and Sony can have regionspecific marketing deals, yet somehow they can have region-free consoles. That proves that it's not a legal problem.

3) "All kinds of circumstances"

Those circumstances are also present with their competetion, and were also present during the DS/PSP era. Again, if their competetion can bypass those circumstances, why can't Nintendo?

 

You know my reasoning? Please, don't be such an arrogant a****** and think that you know what others think.

 

So your reasoning is more like you don't even understand the issues, then?  Fueled by your not liking it.  
The reasons he gave were parts of the reasons why it's because of the sellers side.  If you reread the translation there, it's pretty clear that a long localization process is part of the reason why it's not good for the sellers.  It's a small part of the reason, but it is a reason nonetheless (some games are impacted more than others on this).  

And also, your example of Sony and Microsoft with region-free consoles is lacking.  They still have forms of region lock, it's just not tied to their consoles.  Nintendo is giving the reason why things have to be region locked in the first place, not why they decided to lock the console itself.

The final point on there does apply to all competition, but it really comes down to each individual companies weighing of benefits and costs.  Nintendo was heading that direction with the DS, but I'm sure you should know by now that a lot of hacking of the system went down, and a lot of pirating and in general the flashcarts caused problems as well.  Nintendo decided that the region free model didn't help, and that the benefits did not outweigh the costs in the particular instance.  

The fact you read it the way you did still tells me your reasoning is based off of you not liking it.  Especially the way you worded the portion about localization.  It is correct that doing what the consumer likes is sometimes a good way to improve business, but the consumer can also be unreasonable.

And the fact you use the word "stupid" also shows your reasoning.  You may have other reasons, but the sole driver for it is still that you simply don't like it.  Saying certain systems are region free and that's why it makes no sense shows that you don't know how these things work.



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HylianSwordsman on 01 November 2014
Teeqoz said:


From where do you base your claim that I don't like Nintendo? Do you think I have anything against them? Based on what?

Of course they took a risk with the 3DS making it region-locked, and yes it was a stupid decision. Both the DS and the GBA were region free. So was the PSP (except for the PSP's UMDs, but the games were region free.) and then they got a bad idea about region-locking possibly making them money.

 

The first four and a half lines of the answer are pure bullshit. The only thing that isn't is that it's for the sellers sake and not the customer. And ofcourse you choose to look at the only thing that isn't crap instead of the statement as a whole, which is crap.


I get it from seeing you around the forum. You've been anti-Nintendo plenty. But think what you want. Those are completely valid reasons why region locking could save money. You say they're crap, yet you don't seem to have any idea why they did it. You just think region locking doesn't make money. Whether you think the reasons they gave are not enough to make region locking worth it or not, it doesn't change the fact that the reasons they gave do have actual costs. Copyrights and licensing issues are a very real cost. Localizing games costs money and region locking ensure buyers get the game that Nintendo paid good money to tailor to them by localizing it. Less measurable is the effect of buyers purchasing games that aren't localized for them on the strength of the brand, in terms of buyer's opinions of the quality of Nintendo games when they get games that are in their language but contain phrases only used in another region that speaks that language. Also hard to measure is the effect of ineffective marketing from regional issues on the momentum of the games (though I'd personally say this generation has shown them they have a bigger problem with marketing than just issues caused by being region free). All I'm saying is that this really was their reasoning, however flawed you think it is, and quite honestly, being region free does not affect most people. It affects people who can read other languages that want to get games sooner in other languages that release sooner, it affects people who want to get games that only release in a certain region, and it affects people who live in smaller countries that Nintendo doesn't give as much support to that feel the need to buy systems or games from outside the country. Not a lot of people in those demographics, really. Quite honestly, I don't think having been region free from the beginning would have gotten Nintendo any significant amount of money, save perhaps from whatever they'd get from better publicity. In the DS and GBA days, they would get more from having things region free because back then a LOT of games didn't make it to certain regions. Now we often get simultaneous worldwide releases or releases withing a matter of months at the most, and almost every game gets localized.



Teeqoz on 01 November 2014
MDMAlliance said:
Teeqoz said:
MDMAlliance said

Like most people who say something is a stupid decision, it's stupid because you don't like it.  I know that's your reasoning because you don't even explain why it's stupid beyond "X and Y is region free" and "I don't like the reasons they gave."  

Pretty much every system has a form of region lock on it, whether they leave it up to the publisher, put it on the hardware, or put it on the software.  The motivation for keeping more strict forms of region lock have a lot to do with how people work around it and how some people abuse the system.  Region lock sounds like a dumb idea until you find out that there are actual legal reasons why it's put into place.  Nintendo doesn't WANT to region lock systems for the sake of region locking them.  Like every other company, Nintendo is interested in making profits.  Given what happened with the DS with flashcarts, I imagine that has a good bit to do with their reversion to their strict region lock.  


How the f*** can you know my reasoning? It's not just that I don't like the decision. I'm saying it was a stupid decision based on what we know now. I might not have said that 4 years ago, but based on what we know now it was not smart.

 

Their reasons for why (besides the general "it's for the sellers"):

1) localization takes a long time. 

Exactly, which is why you shouldn't force people to wait potentially several years to play a game if their okay with playing it in Japanese (or whatever). This might even cost sales, because in the period beetween release and localization all hype might be dead.

2) Marketing deals.

Marketing deals existed during DS era as well, and it both MS and Sony can have regionspecific marketing deals, yet somehow they can have region-free consoles. That proves that it's not a legal problem.

3) "All kinds of circumstances"

Those circumstances are also present with their competetion, and were also present during the DS/PSP era. Again, if their competetion can bypass those circumstances, why can't Nintendo?

 

You know my reasoning? Please, don't be such an arrogant a****** and think that you know what others think.

 

So your reasoning is more like you don't even understand the issues, then?  Fueled by your not liking it.  
The reasons he gave were parts of the reasons why it's because of the sellers side.  If you reread the translation there, it's pretty clear that a long localization process is part of the reason why it's not good for the sellers.  It's a small part of the reason, but it is a reason nonetheless (some games are impacted more than others on this).  

And also, your example of Sony and Microsoft with region-free consoles is lacking.  They still have forms of region lock, it's just not tied to their consoles.  Nintendo is giving the reason why things have to be region locked in the first place, not why they decided to lock the console itself.

The final point on there does apply to all competition, but it really comes down to each individual companies weighing of benefits and costs.  Nintendo was heading that direction with the DS, but I'm sure you should know by now that a lot of hacking of the system went down, and a lot of pirating and in general the flashcarts caused problems as well.  Nintendo decided that the region free model didn't help, and that the benefits did not outweigh the costs in the particular instance.  

The fact you read it the way you did still tells me your reasoning is based off of you not liking it.  Especially the way you worded the portion about localization.  It is correct that doing what the consumer likes is sometimes a good way to improve business, but the consumer can also be unreasonable.

And the fact you use the word "stupid" also shows your reasoning.  You may have other reasons, but the sole driver for it is still that you simply don't like it.  Saying certain systems are region free and that's why it makes no sense shows that you don't know how these things work.

 

You just went from just being arrogant, to also being condescending. Congratulations. Would you like to explain to me what I'm not understanding?

PS4 physical games are region free. PSN and related stuff isn't always, but the games are.



Mummelmann on 01 November 2014

To anyone who holds illusions about why region locks are implemented in most cases; it is first and foremost about regional pricing control and profit maximizing against the possible losses of currency collapses and variables.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-02-1584_en.htm?locale=en

No sense in arguing against Iwata's reasoning since it has no root in reality and, as others may have pointed out, none of this seems to bother Sony or Microsoft. You don't make as much money as Nintendo have through the years on such (relatively) low sales without making an effort to maximize profits.



MDMAlliance on 01 November 2014
Teeqoz said:
MDMAlliance said:
Teeqoz said:
MDMAlliance said

Like most people who say something is a stupid decision, it's stupid because you don't like it.  I know that's your reasoning because you don't even explain why it's stupid beyond "X and Y is region free" and "I don't like the reasons they gave."  

Pretty much every system has a form of region lock on it, whether they leave it up to the publisher, put it on the hardware, or put it on the software.  The motivation for keeping more strict forms of region lock have a lot to do with how people work around it and how some people abuse the system.  Region lock sounds like a dumb idea until you find out that there are actual legal reasons why it's put into place.  Nintendo doesn't WANT to region lock systems for the sake of region locking them.  Like every other company, Nintendo is interested in making profits.  Given what happened with the DS with flashcarts, I imagine that has a good bit to do with their reversion to their strict region lock.  


How the f*** can you know my reasoning? It's not just that I don't like the decision. I'm saying it was a stupid decision based on what we know now. I might not have said that 4 years ago, but based on what we know now it was not smart.

 

Their reasons for why (besides the general "it's for the sellers"):

1) localization takes a long time. 

Exactly, which is why you shouldn't force people to wait potentially several years to play a game if their okay with playing it in Japanese (or whatever). This might even cost sales, because in the period beetween release and localization all hype might be dead.

2) Marketing deals.

Marketing deals existed during DS era as well, and it both MS and Sony can have regionspecific marketing deals, yet somehow they can have region-free consoles. That proves that it's not a legal problem.

3) "All kinds of circumstances"

Those circumstances are also present with their competetion, and were also present during the DS/PSP era. Again, if their competetion can bypass those circumstances, why can't Nintendo?

 

You know my reasoning? Please, don't be such an arrogant a****** and think that you know what others think.

 

So your reasoning is more like you don't even understand the issues, then?  Fueled by your not liking it.  
The reasons he gave were parts of the reasons why it's because of the sellers side.  If you reread the translation there, it's pretty clear that a long localization process is part of the reason why it's not good for the sellers.  It's a small part of the reason, but it is a reason nonetheless (some games are impacted more than others on this).  

And also, your example of Sony and Microsoft with region-free consoles is lacking.  They still have forms of region lock, it's just not tied to their consoles.  Nintendo is giving the reason why things have to be region locked in the first place, not why they decided to lock the console itself.

The final point on there does apply to all competition, but it really comes down to each individual companies weighing of benefits and costs.  Nintendo was heading that direction with the DS, but I'm sure you should know by now that a lot of hacking of the system went down, and a lot of pirating and in general the flashcarts caused problems as well.  Nintendo decided that the region free model didn't help, and that the benefits did not outweigh the costs in the particular instance.  

The fact you read it the way you did still tells me your reasoning is based off of you not liking it.  Especially the way you worded the portion about localization.  It is correct that doing what the consumer likes is sometimes a good way to improve business, but the consumer can also be unreasonable.

And the fact you use the word "stupid" also shows your reasoning.  You may have other reasons, but the sole driver for it is still that you simply don't like it.  Saying certain systems are region free and that's why it makes no sense shows that you don't know how these things work.

 

You just went from just being arrogant, to also being condescending. Congratulations. Would you like to explain to me what I'm not understanding?

PS4 physical games are region free. PSN and related stuff isn't always, but the games are.

What the point is that region-lock still has a place on things like the XBone and PS4.  Sony and Microsoft do not specifically implement them, but let the publishers decide if their game will be locked.  Look it up, games can still be region-locked.  Nintendo is just a lot more strict with their guidelines.   

A lot of what was said by Iwata isn't the reason Nintendo specifically locks their hardware, but the reason why region locking exists at all.  



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MikeRox on 01 November 2014
TheEighthByte said:
I think that's the worst translation I have ever read...

Clearly not played Sword Art Online XD

I'm not really sure I undersatnd his arguments regarding region locking. The 3DS is the first portable console I can think of to have region lock even for physical software. It seems baffling to me that you would have a console that can be taken anywhere in the world, then deny your owners access to software whilst they are travelling.

Home consoles it does make more sense. Though I was glad to see that it's becoming less of a thing thanks to Microsoftm and then Sony trying to one up them.

Hopefully going forward they'll stick to region free, surely someone buying a foreign game legitimately is still better overall, than them turning to piracy etc.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

bigtakilla on 02 November 2014
Teeqoz said:
HylianSwordsman said:
Well he was pretty honest about it. Didn't try to spin it or anything. The motivation was for the seller, not the consumer, doing something to benefit the consumer could benefit the seller, they'll consider it, but they have to work around the things that originally motivated it in the first place, copyright, localization, and marketing efficiency. We all know that last one is probably the most important to them, and Microsoft solved it much faster because they have a lot more money they can put into marketing.


Actually his "reason" was a humongous piece of crap. How does he explain why the DS was region free?

Why does he need to? The question was why is Nintendo region locking systems, he answered it honestly.



the_dengle on 02 November 2014
Mummelmann said:

No sense in arguing against Iwata's reasoning since it has no root in reality and, as others may have pointed out, none of this seems to bother Sony or Microsoft. You don't make as much money as Nintendo have through the years on such (relatively) low sales without making an effort to maximize profits.

Nintendo has never made money during a period of relatively low sales.

The only period of relatively low sales in their history was the period from 2011 to present day. Their sales were not relatively low during the N64 era, as this is when Pokemon was at the height of its popularity, and the top 20 best-selling N64 games were all published by Nintendo with 2.5 million+ sales. Their sales were not relatively low during the GameCube era when the GBA and DS (two platforms that were not region-locked "to maximize profits") were lining their pockets.

Also, all companies make every effort to maximize profits. Some companies are just better at it than others.



MDMAlliance on 02 November 2014
the_dengle said:
Mummelmann said:

No sense in arguing against Iwata's reasoning since it has no root in reality and, as others may have pointed out, none of this seems to bother Sony or Microsoft. You don't make as much money as Nintendo have through the years on such (relatively) low sales without making an effort to maximize profits.

Nintendo has never made money during a period of relatively low sales.

The only period of relatively low sales in their history was the period from 2011 to present day. Their sales were not relatively low during the N64 era, as this is when Pokemon was at the height of its popularity, and the top 20 best-selling N64 games were all published by Nintendo with 2.5 million+ sales. Their sales were not relatively low during the GameCube era when the GBA and DS (two platforms that were not region-locked "to maximize profits") were lining their pockets.

Also, all companies make every effort to maximize profits. Some companies are just better at it than others.


Actually you make a good point here in the beginning that looking at strictly hardware sales isn't going to tell you enough about their sales.  Hardware isn't really where the profit comes from anyway.