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Forums - Sony - SONY FY14 Q2: Results $1.2bn loss. 3.3m ps4 shipped.

kowenicki said:
DonFerrari said:
kowenicki said:
Overall these results arent that bad for a financial perspective.

At least they aren't losing in the majority of sectors now. Profits are still hard to come by though in pretty much all sectors other than the usual devices and financials.

Playstation is a bit of a concern. Shipment numbers are obvioulsy big but profits are modest really.

The big problem is of course Mobile. The numbers arent good and the losses are insane. Kaz has a peoblme here as he pretty much put his repuatation on the line with mobile. If it fails, he will be gone.

Kowen how would evaluate the comment above yours as the big reason for the 1.1B loss being downgrade on goodwill of mc to 0? If true it could mean that any decent improvement would upgrade it a lot and bring good results for next quarter or even balance yearly results right?

glad to see you are satisfied with Sony numbers. As you said they are finally stearing most divisions to profit. Hope they find a path on mc.

Its correct.

Full credit must go to the new financial director, Kenichiro Yoshida.

Kaz wasnt grasping the nettle and since the new guy came in the speed of restructuring has increased and he clearly decided to get all the crap out asap, in terms of overstated goodwill etc.

So after the expected big loss for the fiscal year we have a good chance to see real return to profit in a sustainable way. That is the really good news.



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kowenicki said:
Ninsect said:
Phones really dragged Sony down this quarter. Gaming is now their most important segment if we go by revenue


Wrong word. It isnt the most important.  Its the highest and ....mobiles is the second, which proves the saying "revenue is vanity, profit is sanity and cash is king".

The most important revenue is the most profitable revenue.

Gaming is 4th.

If Gaming vanished tomorrow it wouldnt be a biggie actually.  if Financials disappeared tomorrow... so would Sony.

Wel the holidays are coming and with it the gaming profits will no doubt increase



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Ka-pi96 said:
Ninsect said:
kowenicki said:
Ninsect said:
Phones really dragged Sony down this quarter. Gaming is now their most important segment if we go by revenue


Wrong word. It isnt the most important.  Its the highest and ....mobiles is the second, which proves the saying "revenue is vanity, profit is sanity and cash is king".

The most important revenue is the most profitable revenue.

Gaming is 4th.

If Gaming vanished tomorrow it wouldnt be a biggie actually.  if Financials disappeared tomorrow... so would Sony.

Wel the holidays are coming and with it the gaming profits will no doubt increase

Yeah, next quarter will be very interesting indeed.

Does the gaming section have a shot at being the most profitable for a quarter maybe?

I think it can.

Btw, I see gaming in 3rd in terms of profit @kowen, with only financial and devices ahead.



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czecherychestnut said:
Maraccuda said:
I cant make heads or tails of the graphs but it is definitely a 1 billion USD loss? Not good at all. They really need to axe phones sooner than later.


The thing that most people seem to be missing is that 99% of that loss is a one-off writeoff of goodwill, ie the assessed value of the business (in this case the Sony mobile brand). MC made an operating profit (barely, but a profit), but they assessed that the value of the Sony brand for mobiles was 176 billion yen lower than it had been before. This is partly due to smaller market share (smaller market share typically reduces the strength of a brand and hence its worth) and due to the way that the goodwill had been calculated when Sony bought out Ericsson's share of Sony Ericsson. In fact, they reduced their assessed goodwill to zero, meaning that they assess the Sony mobile brand has having no value. 

Without the writedown in goodwill, Sony would have posted a ~ 90 billion yen profit (~ $US800 million) for the quarter. Yeah, Sony aren't healthy, but the underlying business performance is on the way up, they just need to get through the restructuring and re-evaluating of their business. 

To give people an analogy, imagine that you get your house assessed by a real estate agent and he says your house is worth $300k. Three years later, you ask a real estate agent again what its worth and he says that because the market is down and you've got some dodgy neighbours its now worth $250k. If you were a business, in that year you would record a $50k writedown. If your income that year was $40k, as a business you'd say you lost $10k because your net worth decreased by that amount. Of course, good will can also go up, so the opposite can also occur. An appreciable amount of Apple's profit in the mid 00's was due to large increases in the goodwill of the Apple brand. 

It's still a loss... Goodwill exists for a reason, and if there really was that write-off in goodwill you're saying than that means the company was overvalued before...



Btw where can we see the net loss number? I see operating income = -$760m (~85B yen)



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kowenicki said:
Ninsect said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Ninsect said:

Wel the holidays are coming and with it the gaming profits will no doubt increase

Yeah, next quarter will be very interesting indeed.

Does the gaming section have a shot at being the most profitable for a quarter maybe?

I think it can.

Btw, I see gaming in 3rd in terms of profit @kowen, with only financial and devices ahead.

You didnt read what I said did you.  I said most profitable revenue i.e. best margin.

Well I'm more used to people talking about straight up profits but I understand now what you mean. I think in terms of just pure profit gaming can top all other segments in the next Q



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Giggs_11 said:
czecherychestnut said:
Maraccuda said:
I cant make heads or tails of the graphs but it is definitely a 1 billion USD loss? Not good at all. They really need to axe phones sooner than later.


The thing that most people seem to be missing is that 99% of that loss is a one-off writeoff of goodwill, ie the assessed value of the business (in this case the Sony mobile brand). MC made an operating profit (barely, but a profit), but they assessed that the value of the Sony brand for mobiles was 176 billion yen lower than it had been before. This is partly due to smaller market share (smaller market share typically reduces the strength of a brand and hence its worth) and due to the way that the goodwill had been calculated when Sony bought out Ericsson's share of Sony Ericsson. In fact, they reduced their assessed goodwill to zero, meaning that they assess the Sony mobile brand has having no value. 

Without the writedown in goodwill, Sony would have posted a ~ 90 billion yen profit (~ $US800 million) for the quarter. Yeah, Sony aren't healthy, but the underlying business performance is on the way up, they just need to get through the restructuring and re-evaluating of their business. 

To give people an analogy, imagine that you get your house assessed by a real estate agent and he says your house is worth $300k. Three years later, you ask a real estate agent again what its worth and he says that because the market is down and you've got some dodgy neighbours its now worth $250k. If you were a business, in that year you would record a $50k writedown. If your income that year was $40k, as a business you'd say you lost $10k because your net worth decreased by that amount. Of course, good will can also go up, so the opposite can also occur. An appreciable amount of Apple's profit in the mid 00's was due to large increases in the goodwill of the Apple brand. 

It's still a loss... Goodwill exists for a reason, and if there really was that write-off in goodwill you're saying than that means the company was overvalued before...

Yep, not disagreeing with that. Just saying that the underlying performance of Sony is not as bad as the numbers would indicate at face value. Sony have reduced the goodwill of the mobile division to zero, so there can be no further writedowns against mobile in that space. Writedowns in goodwill are not uncommon after acquisitions (which Sony effectively did when they bought out Ericsson's share of Sony Ericsson) as any business worth its salt will try and sell something for more than its worth. In this case Sony paid more for the outstanding share of Sony Ericsson than it now assesses the share was worth, and it has to write down the difference. 



Ka-pi96 said:
DanneSandin said:
I'm taking away two (2) things from this;
holy shit, PS4 is beasting like it's nobody's business
holyshit, what's up with their mobile division?! That shit is bleeding them dry... seems like they've got everything else under control, but what will they do about mobile?!

Yeah, it's really quite shocking how badly the mobile division is doing. Take that out and they'd be profitable.

Hell, just chop the loss in half and they would have made a profit for the quarter.

This is a terrible result for Sony. Mobile is pretty much essential if they want to be in consumer electronics. The Z3 is a sweet machine, so I hope that does well for them this quarter. What sony needs to be is the 3rd way in the high end mobile space. I'm clearly in the minority but I think Sony's high end phones are significantly better than Samsung's, and they sell for more or less the same price. I just don;t get the fascination for the galaxy range. Apple I understand because that became a cult of personality with Jobs the great an powerful. But Samsung, where is that coming from?

As much as PS4 is doing great for them, from a consumer devices perspective that's all eggs in one basket and it's only good for a few years of good revenue. And clearly the current suite of profitable divisions isn;t able to carry them.



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The pictures for me are broken on the front page. Anybody else?

Anyways, good PlayStation numbers! Does appear to be a bit undertracked on VGC right now.

Huge losses for sony as a whole though o.O Im not sure what they can do to fix it by this point but they need to stop bleeding money.




       

kowenicki said:
Overall these results arent that bad for a financial perspective.

At least they aren't losing in the majority of sectors now. Profits are still hard to come by though in pretty much all sectors other than the usual devices and financials.

Playstation is a bit of a concern. Shipment numbers are obvioulsy big but profits are modest really
.

The big problem is of course Mobile. The numbers arent good and the losses are insane. Kaz has a peoblme here as he pretty much put his repuatation on the line with mobile. If it fails, he will be gone.

Woudn't that be pretty expected less than a year into the new generation? Margins on the hardware are going to be tight, so profitability from just selling consoles won't really give good margins until year 2 or even 3. Game has made about a 6% return, translate that into profit margin for a PS4 sale (without a game or PSN+ subscription) in the USA and that's a $24 profit per console. I don't think Sony's getting that kind of margin on each console just yet, and factor in bundling of a game and still keeping that $399 price the margin is pretty much gone, so the profits are coming from elsewhere. Eventually Sony should be able to achieve a reasonable margin per PS4 and that will give Game a good return relative to other divisions.

So the MC division is taking a large write down, which means the loss is not as awful as it looks?



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix