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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Is this it for WiiU in 2015?? Already bigger than 2014??

curl-6 said:

You're seriously going to argue that the AI for a Goomba is no simpler than the space pirates in the Prime trilogy? Which is moot anyway as a modern game would be expected to have AI vastly better.

Or that level design is not affected by having to be built around ranged combat, which again would be expected to be more sophisticated today than in 2002?

Seriously?


Mario has more enemies than just Goomba's, and Metroid definitely has enemies as simple as goombas. And don't act like Space Pirates are any sort of complex, because they aren't. And while I agree that a modern game should have better AI, I have not yet played a Nintendo game with impressive AI complexity. Retro hasn't done it. There's no reason to expect more out of EAD if you won't from Retro.

Same with level design. Prime isn't heralded in it's combat level design. That's not the hard part. That's not what makes Prime special, and that's not what would make it hard for anyone to make a Metroid game. Especially not a team as compitent as EAD. And lets not act like even the best games of today that have level design "built around ranged combat" have anthing more "sophisticated" than what was in prime, unless it's an online shooter.

Seriously.



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spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

You're seriously going to argue that the AI for a Goomba is no simpler than the space pirates in the Prime trilogy? Which is moot anyway as a modern game would be expected to have AI vastly better.

Or that level design is not affected by having to be built around ranged combat, which again would be expected to be more sophisticated today than in 2002?

Seriously?


Mario has more enemies than just Goomba's, and Metroid definitely has enemies as simple as goombas. And don't act like Space Pirates are any sort of complex, because they aren't. And while I agree that a modern game should have better AI, I have not yet played a Nintendo game with impressive AI complexity. Retro hasn't done it. There's no reason to expect more out of EAD if you won't from Retro.

Same with level design. Prime isn't heralded in it's combat level design. That's not the hard part. That's not what makes Prime special, and that's not what would make it hard for anyone to make a Metroid game. Especially not a team as compitent as EAD. And lets not act like even the best games of today that have level design "built around ranged combat" have anthing more "sophisticated" than what was in prime, unless it's an online shooter.

Seriously.

It comes down to this: Retro are proven in mature games.

EAD have no experience whatsoever.



bananaking21 said:


wait, they are actually releasing project giant robot and project guard? oh boy.

 

are one of these the "new ip" that miyamoto was said to be working on?


I believe both are. Project Guard looks OK. Giant Robot looks really rough to me



I predict NX launches in 2017 - not 2016

curl-6 said:

It comes down to this: Retro are proven in mature games.

EAD have no experience whatsoever.


There's nothing to prove. Mature games aren't some type of out of reach level of game design that only the most experienced developers could hope to acheive. It's art direction. That's it. You know what the key word there is? Direction. They are directed to make the game look and feel a specific way. If they are told to make it look and feel like a Metroid game, they'll do it. You don't need "experience" to take direction. I've never made a mature game in my life, but if someone payed me to make a metroid game, it definitely wouldn't come out looking like Mario. You know why? Because I'm a compitent and functioning human being and I know how to take direction. EAD are that, and they're professionals, and they're absolutely brilliant. Masters of game design. Tell their artists to make a Metroid game and they'll do it better than you could ever imagine.



spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

It comes down to this: Retro are proven in mature games.

EAD have no experience whatsoever.

There's nothing to prove. Mature games aren't some type of out of reach thing that only the most experienced developers could hope to acheive. It's art direction. That's it. You know what the key word there is? Direction. They are directed to make the game look and feel a specific way. If they are told to make it look and feel like a Metroid game, they'll do it. You don't need "experience" for that. I've never made a mature game in my life, but if someone payed me to make a metroid game, it definitely wouldn't come out looking like Mario. You know why? Because I'm a compitent and functioning human being. EAD are that, plus they're professionals, plus they're brilliant. Tell their artists to make a dark Metroid game, and they'll do it better than you could ever imagine.

Gross oversimplification. That's like saying Killzone is just a reskinned Wii Sports.



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curl-6 said:

Gross oversimplification. That's like saying Killzone is just a reskinned Wii Sports.


Replace the guns with paintballs, the soldiers with teddy bears, melee kill animations with... I dunno, daisy... hit... animations, change the death animations into a pink puff of smoke, and change the aesthetics of the level design look like candy. Sounds of death replaced with puffs and huffs. Call it Paintzone. Leave everything else exactly the same. Just changes in art direction. Nothing else. Please tell me how that game, which is mechanically identical to Killzone in literally every way, still has any remnant of "mature game design." Then tell me it's not just art design. Then tell me it's a gross oversimplification again.



spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

Gross oversimplification. That's like saying Killzone is just a reskinned Wii Sports.

Replace the guns with paintballs, the soldiers with teddy bears, melee kill animations with... I dunno, daisy... hit... animations, change the death animations into a pink puff of smoke, and change the aesthetics of the level design look like candy. Sounds of death replaced with puffs and huffs. Call it Paintzone. Leave everything else exactly the same. Just changes in art direction. Nothing else. Please tell me how that game, which is mechanically identical to Killzone in literally every way, still has any remnant of "mature game design." Then tell me it's not just art design. Then tell me it's a gross oversimplification again.

LMFAO. Because story, setting, actions, dialogue, and themes are "just art direction"...



curl-6 said:

LMFAO. Because story, setting, actions, dialogue, and themes are "just art direction"...


Metroid's story isn't complex "mature" story telling. Dialog changes in tandem with art direction. So do themes and actions and settings. Those aren't things, in Metroid, that you need a special degree in "mature game design" for. Still just art direction. There's no mature factor in game design at it's mechanical core. Metroid is a game where you explore, jump, and shoot. Everything else, the setting, the way the actions play out, the themes, the dialog, the story, the sound design, all of it spawns from the way the artist decides to direct how the the world looks. The ability to follow direction is not a rare skill. It's basic compitence.

This conversation is over.



spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

LMFAO. Because story, setting, actions, dialogue, and themes are "just art direction"...


Metroid's story isn't complex "mature" story telling. Dialog changes in tandem with art direction. So do themes and actions and settings. Those aren't things, in Metroid, that you need a special degree in "mature game design" for. Still just art direction. There's no mature factor in game design at it's mechanical core. Metroid is a game where you explore, jump, and shoot. Everything else, the setting, the way the actions play out, the themes, the dialog, the story, the sound design, all of it spawns from the way the artist decides to direct how the the world looks. The ability to follow direction is not a rare skill. It's basic compitence.

This conversation is over.

Dialogue is not art direction.

Themes are not art direction.

Actions are not art direction.



I'm WAY more excited for 2015. It has fresh games like Splatoon! along with tried-and-true favorites like Kirby and Yoshi (with a beautiful aesthetic). Not to mention is has two of the biggest Wii U titles yet: Xenoblade Chronicles X and The Legend of Zelda Wii U (not in terms of raw sales, but in terms of likely quality and the scope of the games). Those last 2 are enough to make 2015 my favorite Wii U year all by themselves.



Upcoming Games To Get

Definite: Kirby Star Allies (Switch), Mario Tennis Aces (Switch), Fire Emblem (Switch), Yoshi (Switch), Pokemon (Switch), Kingdom Hearts 3 (PS4), Monster Hunter World (PS4)

Considering: Fe (Switch), Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze (Switch), The World Ends With You (Switch), Ys VIII (Switch), Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition (PS4), Kingdom Hearts 2.8 Remix (PS4), The Last Guardian (PS4), Shadow of the Colossus HD (PS4), Anthem (PS4), Shenmue 3 (PS4), WiLD (PS4)