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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why 2015 will the best year yet for the Wii U

the_dengle said:
Cheebee said:

I honestly see no feasible scenario where Zelda U isn't more costly to develop than Skyward Sword was, in terms of resources and manpower.

Time-wise, maybe; SS did take extraordinarily long to come out (5 years). Then again, if Zelda U releases Q4 2015 it will have been 4 years in development, and should it be delayed (likely imo), it might equal SS's development cycle. But there is absolutely no possible way Zelda U will take less money and less manpower to develop than SS.

It's pretty straightforward. Skyward Sword went through development hell, we know this. It had one of the biggest dev teams of any Nintendo game ever, partly because they kept bringing more and more people into the project so they could finish the damn thing. Pay all of those people for five years.

Now look at Zelda Wii U, where they had a strong idea of the direction they wanted to take it in. They don't have to desperately scramble to expand their team. It could actually have a smaller team than Skyward Sword had because of this. Even if it is the same size or slightly larger, those developers are being paid for four years instead of five.

IF Zelda U releases by Q4 2016, which remains to be seen as it could easily slip well into 2016, then yes, it would have taken them 4 years.

Actually, your 2nd paragraph isn't true at all. SS was Nintendo's biggest project ever, but considering the resources needed for HD development compared to SD development, even getting the game done in 1 year less would still cost a LOT more in terms of manpower and resources needed. Miyamoto himself has even confirmed their HD games take about twice the manpower needed for Wii games: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-07-05-miyamoto-we-underestimated-cost-of-hd-development

Paying people for 5 years for SS, as opposed to paying twice the people for 4 years (minimum) for Zelda U. It's pretty clear which is more costly.

And that's only the manpower, let alone the other resources needed; Zelda U looks set to be much, much bigger than SS ever was (which in all honesty wasn't very big at all, as most areas were re-used several times over the course of the game). Also, there is zero evidence supporting the notion that Nintendo had a strong idea of the direction they wanted to take the game/franchise in, and yes, they did have to desperately scramble to expand their teams for all their Wii U games, as Miyamoto and Iwata have stated on numerous occasions.



Nintendo Network ID: Cheebee   3DS Code: 2320 - 6113 - 9046

 

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iceland said:
Zelda will most likely get delayed so I don't think so.

Also I think the Wii U has enough platformers...

#Platformerbox


everyother system have too many shooters.

on a side note what happened to 3D Platformers?

2D's are making a comeback but open world 3D platformers are all but dead.



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Cheebee said:

IF Zelda U releases by Q4 2016, which remains to be seen as it could easily slip well into 2016, then yes, it would have taken them 4 years.

Actually, your 2nd paragraph isn't true at all. SS was Nintendo's biggest project ever, but considering the resources needed for HD development compared to SD development, even getting the game done in 1 year less would still cost a LOT more in terms of manpower and resources needed. Miyamoto himself has even confirmed their HD games take about twice the manpower needed for Wii games: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-07-05-miyamoto-we-underestimated-cost-of-hd-development

Paying people for 5 years for SS, as opposed to paying twice the people for 4 years (minimum) for Zelda U. It's pretty clear which is more costly.

And that's only the manpower, let alone the other resources needed; Zelda U looks set to be much, much bigger than SS ever was (which in all honesty wasn't very big at all, as most areas were re-used several times over the course of the game). Also, there is zero evidence supporting the notion that Nintendo had a strong idea of the direction they wanted to take the game/franchise in, and yes, they did have to desperately scramble to expand their teams for all their Wii U games, as Miyamoto and Iwata have stated on numerous occasions.

But as I mentioned, Skyward Sword was not your average Wii game. Those first two years of work were almost entirely fruitless. It took them that long to figure out what direction they wanted to take with the game. They were paying their team that whole time. Then when they realized they had already spent too much time and money on the project, they started hiring more people to get it finished more quickly (probably in a race against the end of the Wii's life). Zelda U's dev team might -- might -- be twice the size of Skyward Sword's initial dev team during those first two years, but it would not be twice the size of Skyward Sword's much larger dev team from 2009-2011.

There is actually a lot of evidence indicating that Aonuma knew what he wanted to do with the next Zelda game soon after Skyward Sword was released, based on multiple interviews he has given during the past 2 years. In any case, there is certainly more evidence to support that notion than there is to support the notion that the game suffered similar development problems to Skyward Sword, as there is absolutely no evidence indicating that at all.

Miyamoto and Iwata have talked about having problems with HD development, but they never talked about that in the same sentence as Zelda. And the Zelda team got their experience with HD development from working on Wind Waker.

"After the Zelda team showed the Wii U Zelda demo at E3 2011, we continued to experiment with converting past Zelda art styles into HD as we continued to consider graphical styles for the new game." This game was in the planning stages before Skyward Sword even shipped. The Zelda team has had plenty of time to acclimate themselves to HD development. Given they have already released an HD game and are now working on their second one, I see no reason to doubt their proficiency in HD development.

And your very first sentence is ridiculous. Let's calculate the developments costs of this game working exclusively under the assumption that the company making it doesn't know as much about their development schedule as I do, and assume that the game will be pushed back by a full year because I have an inkling that it might be.

How about name a Wii U game that has been delayed by a full year? Xenoblade was pushed back from a vague '2014' window to a vague '2015' window, that's about it. If it comes out in the first half of 2015, I'd definitely say it was pushed back less than a full year.



Ljink96 said:
Zelda isn't coming out next year. I mean, a typical Zelda cycle is 4 years at least. Considering that Skyward Sword was completed in 2011 (development started posthaste from what I understand) , yeah theoretically it should come out next year. But I'm not believing that for a second. But on the other hand, considering that a general console cycle is 6-7 years now, if they want to make 2 Zeldas like they've done for each system since N64, they'd have to release it next year. If Nintendo only had more 3rd Party support, they wouldn't be so pressured to make ALL the good games.

Typical Zelda cycle is 3 years. 2000 (Majora's Mask), 2003 (Wind Waker), 2006 (Twilight Princess). Skyward Sword came out in 2011, but through interviews with the dev team we know that the game spent two years in development hell and only from 2009-2011 (ding ding ding, three years) was any real progress being made.

Aonuma confirmed in Hyrule Historia, which released in Japan before the end of 2011, that they had already begun working on their next Zelda game. By the end of 2014, it will have spent more than three years in development. 2015 is a fourth 'extra' year. Hell, from the HD demo at E3 2011 (and Aonuma's comments on it) we know that the team was already experimenting with HD development well before Skyward Sword shipped.

Also, I doubt we will get two console Zelda games this generation, not counting remakes.



tbone51 said:
iceland said:
Zelda will most likely get delayed so I don't think so.

Also I think the Wii U has enough platformers...

#Platformerbox


Just a small question, but where do people get this "Insert Game" will be delayed from? I mean i hear this alot and based off of no info.

Because Nintendo delays stuff all the time, especially on Wii U; Pikmin 3, Tropical Freeze, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Wii Fit U, Wii Party U... that's five first party games delayed in less than two years, six if you count Wonderful 101.

The last two console Zeldas also suffered delays, and with the addition of HD and open world, this latest Zelda will almost certainly be more demanding than any prior entry in terms of resources and manpower.



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StarFox please. We need a great game to Reboot the series. Also a side-scrolling Metorid would be awesome too, even for the Wii U.



..Although Nintendo could change up the whole year by dishing out some Splatoon surprises. Features such as Voice-chat, smooth online gameplay, and creative modes to play, as well as co-op is something Nintendo better implement if they want a successful shooter.



the_dengle said:
curl-6 said:

I'm talking ambition in terms of the amount of time, resources, money and manpower it will take to complete. 

Nintendo these days frequently fails to meet its deadlines, and I suspect this will be one such case because of its aforementioned demanding nature.

In that case, the most 'ambitious' (costly) game they have ever made is probably Skyward Sword, and it will probably stay that way.

HD development is generally a far more costly endeavour than SD development.

Skyward Sword may have had a drawn out production, but asset creation would've been much simpler.



curl-6 said:

HD development is generally a far more costly endeavour than SD development.

Skyward Sword may have had a drawn out production, but asset creation would've been much simpler.

Poor planning means more money spent. There is no way Iwata approached Aonuma after his team finished Skyward Sword and said, "That cost way more money than we intended it to. It cost too much money to make, in fact. Here is a blank check, be sure to spend even more money on the next game."

They have a budget, and a schedule. Sometimes schedules get pushed back. Sometimes budgets have to be stretched. Skyward Sword got pushed back two years and stretched its budget a lot so that it wouldn't be pushed back even farther.

Seriously, you are arguing that using higher resolution textures will cost the dev team more than two years of development hell and an overburdened crunch time at the end of production. And you are adamant that the game will be pushed back even further with no evidence to support this outside of 'but these other developers delayed their games.'



the_dengle said:
curl-6 said:

HD development is generally a far more costly endeavour than SD development.

Skyward Sword may have had a drawn out production, but asset creation would've been much simpler.

Poor planning means more money spent. There is no way Iwata approached Aonuma after his team finished Skyward Sword and said, "That cost way more money than we intended it to. It cost too much money to make, in fact. Here is a blank check, be sure to spend even more money on the next game."

They have a budget, and a schedule. Sometimes schedules get pushed back. Sometimes budgets have to be stretched. Skyward Sword got pushed back two years and stretched its budget a lot so that it wouldn't be pushed back even farther.

Seriously, you are arguing that using higher resolution textures will cost the dev team more than two years of development hell and an overburdened crunch time at the end of production. And you are adamant that the game will be pushed back even further with no evidence to support this outside of 'but these other developers delayed their games.'

HD development being more expensive is an established fact, we saw this in the slew of studio closures last gen.

I'm not "adamant", I said I give it an 80% chance of being pushed back, which means I still think it has a 20% shot at coming in 2015.

Nintendo have delayed 5 (6 if you count Wonderful 101) first party Wii U games in less than two years.