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Forums - Gaming - FFXV Combat System Explained UPDATED With more info and images

Hynad said:

Errr. The TLDR part of your OP says:

 "I hope that sheds some light on how this will work. Its a loooooot deeper than all this but I am just tryng to give you all an idea".

That's where I got that you "understand all the details" and passed them as facts. Maybe I did the same as you did and looked too much into things that weren't specific enough to give the actual big picture... ^__-

But when you said "this is nothing like assumptions", I didn't feel I was far off from the mark.

The best explanations we have so far for the battle system, are this:

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/09/19/final-fantasy-xv-demo-will-let-drive-around-explore-dungeons/

Now, you can extrapolate all you want about how the game's sub systems will work. I just don't think you'll achieve much other than disappointment when things don't turn out to be as you believed they'd be when we finally receive proper in-depth explanations.


I have updated the OP with more info taken from the patent. I wonder if after seeing those you would still think this isn't a near accurate explanation of how the combat system will work. Especially considering that patent was filed this month.



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Intrinsic said:
Egann said:

I've never actually played with the gambit system, but it looks like they're ridiculously overthinking this. Dissidia had tight and easy controls and was actually designed to work on a technically inferior input, at least compared to the DS4 or the One's controller. And yet they're worried about input queueing and combat macros? That's just great. The thing enemies needed the most in Final Fantasy was MORE health so routine enemies take a long time to beat. Enemies have such high health we have to use macros to beat them. Fantastic imagination, S-E.

I really hope I'm reading this wrong, because that looks terrible.

You have to first understand what the gambit system aimed to do.

There are a lot of redundant comands you have to do in your typical final fantasy game. A lot of menu shuffling. You actually spend more time going through menus than actually playing the game. What FF12 aimed to do was automate a lot of those commands. So basically, instead of having to shuffle through menues to select cure whenever a characters life was under 20%, you just set a gambit for that and which ever supporting character you assigned that gambit to will cast sure automatically. You only have to worry about casting cure when that character is killed.

FF15 seems to be taking that even further and fine tuning the feild or context of gambit activation. This is why tabata said "its about movement and positioning" in one of his interviews. Gambits can be fine tuned in relation of the distance of a character from an enemy or an ally. In addition to this, gambits are set for the main character too, so you set gambits for what kinda attacks you do and at what range and with what kinda button prompt. This way, you can set a gambit for exactly what kinda attack chain you pull off if attacking an enemy from the rear, or if attacking a group of enemies while next to an ally.

So rather than being about enemies taking forever to kill, this is about executing single commands instantly. That's modestly better, but it still kicks the player out of direct control and undermines the action-feel S-E is going for.

The problem is that this teeters dangerously close to XIII's automated combat. FF games inherited a clunky UI, and rather than properly streamlining it--like they should--they automate it and kick the player out of the gameplay. No, you make good games by forcing the player to make choices on what spells and abilities they equip. This is called "opportunity cost." If you don't have the right stuff equipped somewhere in your party you deserve the game over, or at least be defenseless while you have to menu-surf in the middle of a fight. It works quite well in Dark Souls. I don't see a reason why it couldn't work in Final Fantasy.



Aura7541 said:
I've played FFXII and wasn't impressed with its Gambit system. Too much of the game doing the work for you instead of the game encouraging you to use your brain. Yeah... I'm going to be relying Atlus, Nippon Ichi, Gust, Level-5, and others to satiate my thirst for JRPGs with strategic battle systems.


I gotta disagree. The Gambit system worked really well for me. It allowed me to personalize the fighting style of my party members to my own. It also help cut down on all the goddamn potion wasting that teammates would do (I'm looking at you, Kingdom Hearts) and other little nuisances like that. A gambit system is welcome in a action-oriented RPG, where your main focus is your protagonist (or whoever you are controlling at the time) with your teammates acting accordingly.

At the very least, he is aware of long time fans becoming frustrated with simplistic combat, so it gives me hope they will find a way to make both groups happy.



"Trick shot? The trick is NOT to get shot." - Lucian

If it is similar to FF12 I'd be happy. I really enjoyed that game, but I seem to be in the minority.



This all i have to say about that SHIT. Look! squares battle system that cheetah just made!

Just kill the series if this is what your going to do with it square.



 

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Areym said:
Aura7541 said:
I've played FFXII and wasn't impressed with its Gambit system. Too much of the game doing the work for you instead of the game encouraging you to use your brain. Yeah... I'm going to be relying Atlus, Nippon Ichi, Gust, Level-5, and others to satiate my thirst for JRPGs with strategic battle systems.


I gotta disagree. The Gambit system worked really well for me. It allowed me to personalize the fighting style of my party members to my own. It also help cut down on all the goddamn potion wasting that teammates would do (I'm looking at you, Kingdom Hearts) and other little nuisances like that. A gambit system is welcome in a action-oriented RPG, where your main focus is your protagonist (or whoever you are controlling at the time) with your teammates acting accordingly.

At the very least, he is aware of long time fans becoming frustrated with simplistic combat, so it gives me hope they will find a way to make both groups happy.

Well, to each his own. I hope FFXV's battle system is an "easy to pick up, difficult to master" type of system, but I'm not holding my breath.



Aura7541 said:
Areym said:
Aura7541 said:
I've played FFXII and wasn't impressed with its Gambit system. Too much of the game doing the work for you instead of the game encouraging you to use your brain. Yeah... I'm going to be relying Atlus, Nippon Ichi, Gust, Level-5, and others to satiate my thirst for JRPGs with strategic battle systems.


I gotta disagree. The Gambit system worked really well for me. It allowed me to personalize the fighting style of my party members to my own. It also help cut down on all the goddamn potion wasting that teammates would do (I'm looking at you, Kingdom Hearts) and other little nuisances like that. A gambit system is welcome in a action-oriented RPG, where your main focus is your protagonist (or whoever you are controlling at the time) with your teammates acting accordingly.

At the very least, he is aware of long time fans becoming frustrated with simplistic combat, so it gives me hope they will find a way to make both groups happy.

Well, to each his own. I hope FFXV's battle system is an "easy to pick up, difficult to master" type of system, but I'm not holding my breath.

I hear, that's the feeling I get with Dissidia during my long periods of time playing it. Gotta say, all these snippets of information sound disjointed and don't make me very confident in the end result. Like i've said before, that demo is going to make or break this long awaited game. I still have hope though.



"Trick shot? The trick is NOT to get shot." - Lucian

Wildcard36qs said:
If it is similar to FF12 I'd be happy. I really enjoyed that game, but I seem to be in the minority.


I'm a part of the same minority myself, I loved FFXII; the characters (save for Vaan...), the world, the transport, the level design, the enemies and even the story!

FFXII was real-time/turn-based mix done right.



Mummelmann said:
Wildcard36qs said:
If it is similar to FF12 I'd be happy. I really enjoyed that game, but I seem to be in the minority.


I'm a part of the same minority myself, I loved FFXII; the characters (save for Vaan...), the world, the transport, the level design, the enemies and even the story!

FFXII was real-time/turn-based mix done right.

Same here, FF12 was actually my best FF game. I guess I am also weird cause I preferred FF8 to FF7 and felt FF9 was too much like FF7. I didn't like FF10 mostly cause I hated Tidus and I felt the series needed a change. Which was probably why FF12 appealed to me so much.

I don't understand what people have against the gambit system though. If anything the problem I had with gambits in FF12 was that it wasn't deep enough and I still had to go in to micromanage stuff. The whole points of gambits are that they allow you set instructions (or give commands) for all your party members in advance so you don't have to do it during a fight. And this could be used in ingenious ways if done right.

Eg. Your party is taking on damage quickly and you start frantically trying to cast cure on everyone, which in turn makes you lose 3 or 4, setting a gambit so an ally casts cure on anyone that their HP is around 30% means you never have to worry about that in a fight, and you can concentrate on just manually casting haste on that particular ally since he is your main support ally. You could even take that a step further and have him auto cast haste on himself and you at the start of the fight.

I think if they expand on the gambit system as much as they could this would add a whole new layer of strategy to the game, and from all indications it seems that exactly what they are trying to do.



Based on the last tidbit in the OP and on this particular patent, would I be correct in saying that the system can be used like BOTH the gambit system and real time combat?

So if you wanted to fight manually (especially including the character you're controlling) you can and if you want your characters to have automated actions (including the current controllable character) you can as well?



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