DJEVOLVE said: eFKac said: jlmurph2 said: eFKac said: Pretty much none effect. Still gonna get obliterated by the competition. Doesn't mean the consoles won't sell. What does it even mean? You think without those bundles the console wouldn't sell? Xbone has a weak showing this year and beyond, a digital game bundled won't change that. It won't do anything in Europe, MS can as well stop trying, don't think we'll see much in NA, but it's their best chance for not being embarrased by competition's numbers, and I guess there is still hope for Japan and of course China, the new saviour. Sony should have done that with the PS3 with your logic. Ruling out this early is........................................

I don't agree that MS should just stop trying, I actually wish they tried as hard as they could cause that would keep sony on their toes.

But I think there are some simple facts that people ignore. I will just list tehm out for ppl to agree with or dispute. These "facts" could be regarded as heavily opinionated but I am going off history here.

1. Globally, which is a bigger/more successful brand? Playstation or Xbox? I would say Playstation.
2. Sony's problems with teh PS3 were mostly self imposed, if they had launched at $399 that generation would have been a completely different story. Its like people frget that they laucnhed at $600 when the cheapest 360 one could buy cost $300. 
3. If doing everything right, like sony has done... what chance exactly does MS have? lets face it, both sony and MS have games. Some will prefer the games form one company more than the other, and i can understand fanboys in either camp making it seem like the other guy doesn't have games cause you know... thats what being a fanboy mostly does, makes you blind to everything else. 
4. Sony has seen off every major player in the industry, they did it to nintendo first, then completely decimated sega (though in truth sega was already on a downward spiral) and they kept the original xbox at bay, clawed their way back with the PS3...etc yet people talk like sony is new in all this.
5. The xbox brand  was ever really strong in just one territory. NA. They did very well last gen, but this gen its been a bloodbath. Too early to call it, but do people really think Halo is going to somehow make the XB1 better or more succesful than the PS4?

I am just curious, looking at both brands and their history, really looking at what went wrong and right with each console.... by what metric do people stil believe that the XB1 is going to somehow pull a PS3 this gen. The xbox brand doesn't even have those kinda legs. I mean its obviosu that this gen the XB1 is not ever gonna outsell the PS4 2:1 in NA. But even if it somehow manage 20% beter sales that the PS4 in NA every month for the rest of the gen (which i dont see happenning) and it keeps losing as heavily as it is everywhere else... what good will that really do for it. Personally, I think the race is nolonger between the PS4 and XB1. Its now between the XB1 and the WiiU for who comes second. Thats not a bad thing if whoever comes second can at least manage 50M in sales by the end of the generation.

Dr.Henry_Killinger said: VanceIX said: Dr.Henry_Killinger said: Good news for xbox gamers is not always good news for all gamers, not to mention even if reversals are news they aren't really gaining any credibility. For example, applauding Kinect Removal is silly, when MS is the one who made it mandatory in the first place. Oh wow, you want me to appreciate correcting your mistakes, please, am I supposed to be impressed with a best in improvement award? Listening to consumers and removing the bad aspects of a console is always a good thing, no matter how bad the console fucked up in the beginning. Sony had the same issues last gen, and they came back by listening to the consumers and getting things right. If you don't care about that simple fact though, we have nothing more to talk about.  Seriously? I don't even care if you call it good news, but you aren't listening to consumers if you ignored them making them the exact same demands last year and are only acquiescing because you're losing. I'm not gonna congragulate them for fixing mess they created themselves.

No one's asking you too.

But it was nice for gamers in general that the Xbox One became more competitive by shaving off the bad features and adding in new ones. It causes Sony in turn to innovate to be more competitive. I doubt we would have seen 3D bluray support so soon, for example, if the One didn't do it first.

But anyway, you don't seem to care. For you, unless it directly benefits you, it's not good new. It's pointless arguing with a mentality like that.

You mean mentality that recognizes what actual "great" and "good" news is, and not accepting that no longer getting shafted as hard doesn't qualify as either. I mean thats like thanking someone for not beating you as hard after they beat ya hard for years and saying the fact they started beating you less was great news.

disregard

VanceIX said: No one's asking you too. But it was nice for gamers in general that the Xbox One became more competitive by shaving off the bad features and adding in new ones. It causes Sony in turn to innovate to be more competitive. I doubt we would have seen 3D bluray support so soon, for example, if the One didn't do it first. But anyway, you don't seem to care. For you, unless it directly benefits you, it's not good new. It's pointless arguing with a mentality like that.

Lets stay on topic.

jmurph posted a video from stonefox, that said MS won E3 calling him sony biased.

I joked that anyone who disagreed with his opinion is biased for sony as well. Not to mention, stonefox supports MS as much as Sony, and that if he's covering a lot of MS bad news, thats because cause their is a lot of MS bad news.

Jmurph says their's a lot of good news, and you agree with him and now here we are.

This debate is pointless because this is a matter of opinion, let alone completely on a tangent of what we were originally discussing.

I understand your pov, but it seems you don't understand mine. I value appropriate action the first time, not correction after the fact. Microsoft knew about the reaction and had from their intial announcement till November to change thing. The got another reaction at E3 and at Gamescom, they didn't even show up at TGS. Then released with maybe 2 changes, always on patch and optional but still bundled kinect, taking away family share because gamers didn't deserve it. So even if they fix them, I'm not gonna praise them, because they are just getting back to zero for me. And it is a fact that their are other who share my opinion about this.

So whenever I hear, narratives about MS listening to gamers, I call bs because its not listening if you ignore them, not once, not twice, but three times, see your sales failing and then say, oh we better do something about this.

I don't understand why Phil Spencer being the new head means anything, especially when the new CEO of MS said Xbox is important but this other stuff over here, yah thats our core focus. Just a new figurehead, who they can scapegoat if things ever go wrong.