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Forums - Gaming - Why is moneyhatting frowned upon?

fps_d0minat0r on 13 August 2014
last92 said:
fps_d0minat0r said:
The problem is that they didnt pay to 'secure the game for their system'.

They were going to get that game anyway. They just spent money keeping the game away from gamers on other systems.

Why would you expect people to not hate them for keeping a game they are not creatively associated with away from them?

I can just about understand Ryse and titanfall because they helped establish those (even though they dont own them), but this is some next level shit.

I agree its competition, but i'm damn sure its not healthy competition.


I completley agree with you. Also, I believe that all the hate was caused by MS way of annoucing the TR exclusivity deal. Their wording was not honest at all. Just say something like "first on xbox" next time.


Exactly.

When Sony came out with exclusives at the end they clarified everything saying... abc are 'exclusive to playstation' and xyz are 'first on playstation'.

I cant say I agree with the practice of timed exclusivity, but at least they didnt bait gamers on other consoles.



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monado3 on 13 August 2014

Simple, when sony and ms moneyhat companies so they don't release their games on nintendo consoles, it's ok. when they do it to get some form of exclusivity, things go wild.



Teeqoz on 13 August 2014
JayWood2010 said:
Teeqoz said:


MS has to own the studio for it to be a 1st party game. That's the definition of a 1st party game. I'm not sure for all of them but for Sunset Overdrive MS doesn't own the IP, Insomniac does. I doubt MS owns the IP for Project Spark because it's coming to PC. You're using 3rd party games as an argument for MS 1st party.


First party ip -  Killer Instinct - Scalebound - Crackdown - Phantom Dust are all examples of first party games.  They call this 2nd party developement but they are indeed first party ip.

Project Spark is owned by MSFT as well as the studio making it (Microsoft Team Dakota)

But yes they are all first party games just as Bloodborne and Heavy Rain is a first party game for Sony.  


Project Spark is a co-development between Team Dakota(MS) and Sky Box Labs (not MS). I have never seen anyone use your definition of a 1st party game, a first party IP being Developed by a third party dev is a 2nd party game. Not sure why you mentioned a ton of other games that I never mentioned, and I don't have the time to check the dev of each of them,  but It's impossible to say that Sunset Overdrive is a MS 1st party game.



Teeqoz on 13 August 2014
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Teeqoz said:

MS has to own the studio for it to be a 1st party game. That's the definition of a 1st party game. I'm not sure for all of them but for Sunset Overdrive MS doesn't own the IP, Insomniac does. I doubt MS owns the IP for Project Spark because it's coming to PC. You're using 3rd party games as an argument for MS 1st party.


No. A first party game is when an IP is owned by a platform holder. This is not to be mistakened with a first party developer (which MS barely ever use or are just using improperly). This is why MS isn't known for internal prowess.

Sunset Overdrive is a third party game. Gears of War was made  by second party  until Microsoft made it first party by buying the IP. The game started out third party but Microsoft contracted Epic and funded them for the production of the game which made them a second party studio for them at that time.

Rare was a second party developer for Nintendo until Nintendo gave up their shares and MS bought them and made them first party. First party content can be made by a second party (contracted to make an IP owned by the publisher). We call that a "commission" because you're paying for the work of a contracted outside source.

Also second party dont have to make first party, they are just contracted to make exclusives, but a publisher can request to keep an IP but they have to pay up for the rights. This is why when Rare left Nintendo they took  almost their whole catalogue with them even though Nintendo published most of the games. 

First Party:

  1. Electronic games. Of a video game, developed and published by the manufacturer of the video game's respective platform or its internal developers, as opposed to third-party.                                                                                           There you go, you're plain wrong


Captain_Tom on 13 August 2014

Because net value isn't created. It really is that simple.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 13 August 2014
Teeqoz said:

First Party:

  1. Electronic games. Of a video game, developed and published by the manufacturer of the video game's respective platform or its internal developers, as opposed to third-party.                                                                                           There you go, you're plain wrong


There is no disambiguation in that definition. I explained that very definition and extrapolated and even gave you examples. First party doesnt need to be developed by the hardware manufacturer. It could be contracted works. Lost Odyssey wasnt made by a Microsoft studio, but it is first party because MS paid for the IP and it belongs to them. Heavy Rain was made by a second party to Sony but is a first party title for Sony.

Second party don't have to make a first party game, but they can if they are commissioned to. There is a difference. That definition is the quickest and simplest definition possible.

You're only giving the definition of a first party developer, not first party which pretty much means the IP belongs to the studio.



Machiavellian on 13 August 2014
The Fury said:
IamAwsome said:

They opened a dozen new studios over the years. They're working on something. Microsoft also has new stuff like Scalebound, Sunset Overdrive, and Project Spark. There isn't a shortage of new projects at Microsoft Studios. 

The Wii U's first party games aren't enough to power it past the PS4. Microsoft knows you need more than first party games to sell, and this is why they moneyhat. 

Working on something. Nice to know. Shame we don't know what. Scalebound and Sunset Overdrive are not being made by their studios. They are a deal where MS fund development and it appears on MS console, very simple business and not a concern.It's this obvious taking away a game from others that is.

Maybe Wii U first party aren't enough to take it past the PS4 but its enough to have it keep on toe with Xbox One even without this 3rd party support. I want to see MS make big games themselves, not have 3rd parties do it for them. Forza is a great start but so far Xbone's biggest games are all 3rd party. Xbox gamers deserve more than just paying off 3rd parties for exclusives that already existed anyway.

@Bolded:  Neither is Bloodborn, The Order, Deep Down, Wild, HellBlade or a host of other exclusives that are coming out for the PS4.  Pretty much every thread I read, I do not see anyone who is Pro Sony have any problems with those studios making exclusives for Sony.  

Basically people pick and choose how they see 3rd party developers making games for the console of their choice.  We see the list of these games pop up all the time but no real concern they are not Sony studios or for some even exclusives but timed.



S.T.A.G.E. on 13 August 2014
Machiavellian said:
The Fury said:
IamAwsome said:

They opened a dozen new studios over the years. They're working on something. Microsoft also has new stuff like Scalebound, Sunset Overdrive, and Project Spark. There isn't a shortage of new projects at Microsoft Studios. 

The Wii U's first party games aren't enough to power it past the PS4. Microsoft knows you need more than first party games to sell, and this is why they moneyhat. 

Working on something. Nice to know. Shame we don't know what. Scalebound and Sunset Overdrive are not being made by their studios. They are a deal where MS fund development and it appears on MS console, very simple business and not a concern.It's this obvious taking away a game from others that is.

Maybe Wii U first party aren't enough to take it past the PS4 but its enough to have it keep on toe with Xbox One even without this 3rd party support. I want to see MS make big games themselves, not have 3rd parties do it for them. Forza is a great start but so far Xbone's biggest games are all 3rd party. Xbox gamers deserve more than just paying off 3rd parties for exclusives that already existed anyway.

@Bolded:  Neither is Bloodborn, The Order, Deep Down, Wild, HellBlade or a host of other exclusives that are coming out for the PS4.  Pretty much every thread I read, I do not see anyone who is Pro Sony have any problems with those studios making exclusives for Sony.  

Basically people pick and choose how they see 3rd party developers making games for the console of their choice.  We see the list of these games pop up all the time but no real concern they are not Sony studios or for some even exclusives but timed.


Bloodborne is being co developed by sony japan and from software using a similar formula they used to create demon sould. Ready at dawn is second party co developing with first party in sony santa monica. Those are full first party games. They are collaborative efforts.



Soundwave on 13 August 2014

Never heard any complaints from Sony fans when Sony used to moneyhat basically every big third party game. MGS2, Final Fantasy X/XI/XII, GTA3, Soul Calibur 3, Kingdom Hearts 1/2, Silent Hill, etc. etc. would've been nice to have on the GameCube for example.

Or when they locked out many third parties from Sega.

They just can't afford to do that these days since they aren't financially anywhere close to the company they used to be.



Dark_Feanor on 13 August 2014

Gamers are the "criationist" of technology.

They think that games come to existency from a superior being and no resource or risk is involved.

Build a game studio, hire qualified personal, licence engines and IDKs, surport infrastructure, pay workers rights, pay energy bill... Nothing of those things exist in a gamers mind.