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Forums - Nintendo - Will Nintendo's next handheld and console use Power PC like the Wii U?

Gammalad said:
Well Nintendo did promise from here on out all Nintendo systems will be backwards compatible. So on the next console you can play Wii and Wii U games on it.


People need to stop misquouting things. They said they'd like to "absorb" the Wii U into future hardware, but that could mean anything, like dev libraries to make for easier porting. 

You can't use a PowerPC chip in a handheld I don't think either, it's just not power efficient enough. 



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Scoobes said:

That's really not true anymore. Far more research has been done into X86 compared to PowerPC. Intel has chips that have TDP as low 2.5W and are being increasingly used in tablets. Even AMD who don't have the advantage of the die shrink that Intel do have APUs (so that's including the GPU) that are equal to or lower than the TDP of the WiiU with approx. the same performance, as well as their own tablet equivalents.


Ugh, so it isn't more efficient?



amak11 said:
spemanig said:


That's what I mean though. I get that PowerPC is more efficient, but what does that matter if no one but Nintendo uses it? If it's easier to develop for, wouldn't it be better for Nintendo to use x86? And what are the advantaged of ARM over both? Why would Nintendo use that instead of Power PC next gen, and would the be able to maintain BC with ARM or would they be starting from scratch like with the PS4 and XBO? Would they have to emulate the Wii U like they do with the Wii, or would it be as simple as plugging in one hardrive into the new system and running it from the new consoles OS natively?

It's not necessarily easier to develop for, but it's easier for developers to make games on. 

ARMs advantages mainly are lower power consumption and efficiency. This is just saying though, it would take only 4 cores of the PS4 to match/beat the CPU power of the Wii U ( and PS3 and 360) which is largely due to efficency. ARM is PowerPC, just for clarification so you don't get confused. Both terms are being thrown around here (Wii U cpu is ARM9). They wouldn't be able to maintain BC with the Wii U next gen if they went with x86 so it would be the same as PS4/XBO so starting from scratch. They wouldn't be able to emulate the Wii U on x86 (nor will any PC for the next 6 - 8 years). Wii is slightly possible, as with Gamecube (then again Gamecube is possible now on the Wii U if they chose to make a Gamecube app). It wouldn't be as simple as plugging a hard drive in to a new system (Wii U uses flash, same with Wii)

My thought on the Wii U currently is that they are rushing out account features and console features to catch up with the joneses. Then again, Nintendo did something Sony and MS could have done but didnt and a launched a social gamer network which is popular with devs and people alike. My suggestion is wait and see what they do with the Wii U feature wise in the next year or two and we'll go from there. If I'm right Nintendo will seperate all purchases on Wii Us in to dedicated accounts and launch it with a 3Ds successor which will be future compatible with the next home console and compatible with the Wii U. All this is shaping up to be a different Nintendo in 5 years. 

ARM and PowerPC are two different instruction sets. They're both RISC based which helps with efficiency, but they're still different architectures.

And the WiiU CPU is a three core PowerPC based CPU. It has a seperate ARM based processor for background tasks and OS handling.



If they had any sense, their next handheld would pretty much be a Wii U. Instant back catalogue to re-release with stunning handheld visuals (let's face it, Sony won't be going down that route again) and a large set of pre made engine for all their key games along with very simple "re-release" options for Wii U games should the userbase swell allowing them to maximise the profits from their Wii U investments.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

MikeRox said:
If they had any sense, their next handheld would pretty much be a Wii U. Instant back catalogue to re-release with stunning handheld visuals (let's face it, Sony won't be going down that route again) and a large set of pre made engine for all their key games along with very simple "re-release" options for Wii U games should the userbase swell allowing them to maximise the profits from their Wii U investments.


The Wii U chip simply runs way too hot to get into a handheld. 

Even if they could bring the consumption down to 1/3, that would be about 11 watts, way too power hungry for any type of handheld device. 

What they probably will do is take the Wii U's architecture and design a new dev kit that makes it easier to port games from Wii U to the new chip. 



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spemanig said:
Scoobes said:

That's really not true anymore. Far more research has been done into X86 compared to PowerPC. Intel has chips that have TDP as low 2.5W and are being increasingly used in tablets. Even AMD who don't have the advantage of the die shrink that Intel do have APUs (so that's including the GPU) that are equal to or lower than the TDP of the WiiU with approx. the same performance, as well as their own tablet equivalents.


Ugh, so it isn't more efficient?

It's RISC based so I suppose you could say it's inherently more efficient than X86 (which is CISC). But far more R&D went into X86 than PowerPC to the point where Intel and AMD managed to design CPU's that mitigated much of the efficiency advantage whilst offering a decent price/performance ratio. At its height, PowerPC architectures offered great performance for relatively cheap cost, but eventually (after much investment) that advantage was reduced. Even Apple ended up with X86 after years of pushing PowerPC.

ARM on the other hand (also RISC based) has taken off as the power efficient alternative which is why it's found in the vast majority of phones and tablets, not to mention the background tasks on the next gen consoles.



Soundwave said:
MikeRox said:
If they had any sense, their next handheld would pretty much be a Wii U. Instant back catalogue to re-release with stunning handheld visuals (let's face it, Sony won't be going down that route again) and a large set of pre made engine for all their key games along with very simple "re-release" options for Wii U games should the userbase swell allowing them to maximise the profits from their Wii U investments.


The Wii U chip simply runs way too hot to get into a handheld. 

Even if they could bring the consumption down to 1/3, that would be about 11 watts, way too power hungry for any type of handheld device. 

What they probably will do is take the Wii U's architecture and design a new dev kit that makes it easier to port games from Wii U to the new chip. 


Well that's why I said "pretty much a Wii U". In the way Vita is "pretty much" a PS3. There are obviously going to be some consessions. But really Nintendo want a simple to develop "Wii U-ish" system, that is also incredibly friendly with a home console.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

MikeRox said:
Soundwave said:
MikeRox said:
If they had any sense, their next handheld would pretty much be a Wii U. Instant back catalogue to re-release with stunning handheld visuals (let's face it, Sony won't be going down that route again) and a large set of pre made engine for all their key games along with very simple "re-release" options for Wii U games should the userbase swell allowing them to maximise the profits from their Wii U investments.


The Wii U chip simply runs way too hot to get into a handheld. 

Even if they could bring the consumption down to 1/3, that would be about 11 watts, way too power hungry for any type of handheld device. 

What they probably will do is take the Wii U's architecture and design a new dev kit that makes it easier to port games from Wii U to the new chip. 


Well that's why I said "pretty much a Wii U". In the way Vita is "pretty much" a PS3. There are obviously going to be some consessions. But really Nintendo want a simple to develop "Wii U-ish" system, that is also incredibly friendly with a home console.

The issue is still in that case, using say an ARM + Qualcomm GPU is far more efficient and cheaper than trying to shoehorn/downsize the Wii U chip literally.

It's just not possible. I think the eDRAM on the Wii U would be another killer too. 

If they want Wii U type performance that runs at a lower resolution, like say 960x540 ... yeah sure that should be doable by middle of 2016 for $200-$250.



Soundwave said:

The issue is still in that case, using say an ARM + Qualcomm GPU is far more efficient and cheaper than trying to shoehorn/downsize the Wii U chip literally.

It's just not possible. I think the eDRAM on the Wii U would be another killer too. 

If they want Wii U type performance that runs at a lower resolution, like say 960x540 ... yeah sure that should be doable by middle of 2016 for $200-$250.


Why couldn't that just run Wii U games then, but downscaled to fit with the hardware? Why can't Nintendo have the Wii U's infrustructure be the start of this "unified OS" and "games on multiple playforms?" Why couldn't the Wii U and it's library and OS be the base for which all future platforms are based?



spemanig said:
zorg1000 said:

A single company being able to on average release a new game every 3-4 weeks is not bad software output in anyway and yes Nintendo handhelds have always had excellent support from Japanese 3rd parties, just because they dont get 100% of games doesnt mean they have bad support.

Nintendo games+strong Japanese 3rd party support+family friendly western titles+the occasional AAA western title would easily give Nintendo's unified console/handheld a few games per month which is more than enough to support the console.

Im not saying Nintendo shouldnt allow western 3rd parties on there platforms but they also shouldnt go out of there way to cater to them since there is a huge history of these games no selling very well on Nintendo platforms.


How many of those games are AAA quality again? Exactly. A console can't and isn't triving on what Nintendo is putting out. What you are talking about isn't enough. It wouldn't be enough for literally any console ever. "The occasional AAA western title" isn't enough.

Every single game has to be AAA quality?

Im pretty sure 3DS has sold over 40m in a little over 3 years due to Nintendo games, Japanese 3rd parties and family friendly western titles. When was the last time AAA western games were the driving force of any Nintendo platform? Oh ya never in there 30 or so years as a hardware manufacturer.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.