By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Will Nintendo's next handheld and console use Power PC like the Wii U?

amak11 on 02 August 2014
spemanig said:


That's what I mean though. I get that PowerPC is more efficient, but what does that matter if no one but Nintendo uses it? If it's easier to develop for, wouldn't it be better for Nintendo to use x86? And what are the advantaged of ARM over both? Why would Nintendo use that instead of Power PC next gen, and would the be able to maintain BC with ARM or would they be starting from scratch like with the PS4 and XBO? Would they have to emulate the Wii U like they do with the Wii, or would it be as simple as plugging in one hardrive into the new system and running it from the new consoles OS natively?

It's not necessarily easier to develop for, but it's easier for developers to make games on. 

ARMs advantages mainly are lower power consumption and efficiency. This is just saying though, it would take only 4 cores of the PS4 to match/beat the CPU power of the Wii U ( and PS3 and 360) which is largely due to efficency. ARM is PowerPC, just for clarification so you don't get confused. Both terms are being thrown around here (Wii U cpu is ARM9). They wouldn't be able to maintain BC with the Wii U next gen if they went with x86 so it would be the same as PS4/XBO so starting from scratch. They wouldn't be able to emulate the Wii U on x86 (nor will any PC for the next 6 - 8 years). Wii is slightly possible, as with Gamecube (then again Gamecube is possible now on the Wii U if they chose to make a Gamecube app). It wouldn't be as simple as plugging a hard drive in to a new system (Wii U uses flash, same with Wii)

My thought on the Wii U currently is that they are rushing out account features and console features to catch up with the joneses. Then again, Nintendo did something Sony and MS could have done but didnt and a launched a social gamer network which is popular with devs and people alike. My suggestion is wait and see what they do with the Wii U feature wise in the next year or two and we'll go from there. If I'm right Nintendo will seperate all purchases on Wii Us in to dedicated accounts and launch it with a 3Ds successor which will be future compatible with the next home console and compatible with the Wii U. All this is shaping up to be a different Nintendo in 5 years. 



Around the Network
Soundwave on 02 August 2014
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

Backwards compatibility with the Wii U is a niche idea. It's a niche library. Nintendo can't make decisions based on the 10 people who just can't live their lives without playing "random Wii U game that no one bought the first time around". 

If they can create some dev tools that makes for easier porting then they can take the 10-12 Wii U games really worth porting, and port those, maybe just hire one team to handle all that and leave it that. 

Choosing a more expensive/less efficient CPU or GPU for this reason ... well, lets just say if they do that, then Nintendo really has no right to complain about hardware costs biting them in the ass later on. You make stupid decisions, be prepared to pay the piper. 

PS4 has no backwards compatibility yet its kicking the Wii U's ass every which way. 


Again, didn't stop them with the Wii's GCN BC. It's not a niche idea. The PS4 is a lesser console than it could be because it lacks BC.


Well that's the thing with making a console -- you have to actually make some hard decisions. 

Leaving BC out of the PS4 allowed Sony to make a powerful console and a decent price point, and now the costs of the PS4 are dropping faster than even Sony expected, meaning they will have higher profit margins much more quickly than anticipated. 

Because they opted to use straight forward, heavily mass produced components, instead of asking for a highly customized, niche style console. 



amak11 on 02 August 2014
Soundwave said:


Well the Wii U results speak for themselves, not only did Nintendo manage to make a console only moderately more powerful than a 7 year old XBox 360, they managed to lose money on it too. 

It's time to stop making hardware based on niche ideas ... like backwards compatibility and having a console that's small and only runs at 33 watts because Japanese housewives and eco-friendlies that like low power consumption. The general gaming audience doesn't give a f*ck, yet Nintendo expended all that effort into these areas that yielded a more expensive console to mass produce. 

If they want to make a console for an audience of like 10 million people though, that's their business. It's just not very good business. 

There's really only 10 Wii U games that maybe are worthwhile in terms of having for BC anyway -- Mario 3D World, DKC, MK8, Smash, Zelda U, Xenoblade, Bayo 2, Splatoon ... the rest really ... if you can't live without Mario & Sonic Sochii games ... c'mon. If they can create some dev tools that make it easier to port the 10 or so Wii U games that the masses really give a crap about, then it's better to simply go with the most cost effective for power chip. 

Just pointing out, Backwards compatibility is a positive console feature and to this day is a feature of the PS3 also. It's not necessarily niche nor will it ever be niche. Sometimes people don't want to pull out their older consoles, hook them up and play there. 

Another point, PowerPC is cheaper and significantly more efficient than x86. This is plain facts and as someone who works heavily enough in the technology industry I need to keep tabs on this stuff. The general gaming audience cares about power consumption you dingle. If they can use less electricity and game more they are happy campers. The Wii U is selling at a profit and it was selling at a profit sooner than Sony with the PS4.

Bare in mind, these are your opinions you are spouting and people on here have already said the console is expected to sell close to if not more than Gamecube numbers. This is a general consensus on the matter. So you and your "10 million people" remark needs to go back to the drawing board before criticizing what you do not know.  



zorg1000 on 02 August 2014
spemanig said:
zorg1000 said:

So Nintendo has bad software output because they cant match the total of every 3rd party developer combined?

Also u seem to be ignoring a major point I made in both previous posts, they will still have excellent Japanese 3rd party support


No, they just have bad software output, but having two consoles, reguardless of unified platforms, needs to be able to match the total third party output if they want to be self sufficient. And no, they wouldn't have excellent japanese 3rd party support. They'd have pretty decent 3rd party handheld support. What about all the Japanese 3rd party games the Vita is getting that the 3DS isn't? What about all the Japanese console games the PS3/4 is getting that the Wii U isn't, ei all of them.

A single company being able to on average release a new game every 3-4 weeks is not bad software output in anyway and yes Nintendo handhelds have always had excellent support from Japanese 3rd parties, just because they dont get 100% of games doesnt mean they have bad support.

Nintendo games+strong Japanese 3rd party support+family friendly western titles+the occasional AAA western title would easily give Nintendo's unified console/handheld a few games per month which is more than enough to support the console.

Im not saying Nintendo shouldnt allow western 3rd parties on there platforms but they also shouldnt go out of there way to cater to them since there is a huge history of these games no selling very well on Nintendo platforms.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Cheebee on 02 August 2014

Here are some quotes from Iwata himself:

'... each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort.

However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.'

And also:

'Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models.

The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment. However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future.'

Source: http://nintendoeverything.com/iwata-on-integrating-handheldconsole-teams-next-system-will-absorb-the-wii-u-architecture-adequately-more/

each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Read more at http://nintendoeverything.com/iwata-on-integrating-handheldconsole-teams-next-system-will-absorb-the-wii-u-architecture-adequately-more/
each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Read more at http://nintendoeverything.com/iwata-on-integrating-handheldconsole-teams-next-system-will-absorb-the-wii-u-architecture-adequately-more/
each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Read more at http://nintendoeverything.com/iwata-on-integrating-handheldconsole-teams-next-system-will-absorb-the-wii-u-architecture-adequately-more/
each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Read more at http://nintendoeverything.com/iwata-on-integrating-handheldconsole-teams-next-system-will-absorb-the-wii-u-architecture-adequately-more/
each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Read more at http://nintendoeverything.com/iwata-on-integrating-handheldconsole-teams-next-system-will-absorb-the-wii-u-architecture-adequately-more/


Nintendo Network ID: Cheebee   3DS Code: 2320 - 6113 - 9046

 

Around the Network
Vena on 02 August 2014
amak11 said:

ARM is PowerPC, just for clarification so you don't get confused. Both terms are being thrown around here (Wii U cpu is ARM9).


WiiU's main chip is Espresso PPC, the GPU is Latte which has a secondary ARM9 CPU for handling the system.

Note, I am not against your statements anyway. PPC and ARM are both RISC systems and can be tailored for gaming efficiency, and therein should not bar backwards compatability from one another. I am just going into the details.



Jumpin on 02 August 2014

Nintendo should star using petrol powered systems.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Frogger on 02 August 2014
zorg1000 said:

A single company being able to on average release a new game every 3-4 weeks is not bad software output in anyway and yes Nintendo handhelds have always had excellent support from Japanese 3rd parties, just because they dont get 100% of games doesnt mean they have bad support.

Nintendo games+strong Japanese 3rd party support+family friendly western titles+the occasional AAA western title would easily give Nintendo's unified console/handheld a few games per month which is more than enough to support the console.

Im not saying Nintendo shouldnt allow western 3rd parties on there platforms but they also shouldnt go out of there way to cater to them since there is a huge history of these games no selling very well on Nintendo platforms.


How many of those games are AAA quality again? Exactly. A console can't and isn't triving on what Nintendo is putting out. What you are talking about isn't enough. It wouldn't be enough for literally any console ever. "The occasional AAA western title" isn't enough.



JazzB1987 on 02 August 2014
spemanig said:
JazzB1987 said:

Nintendo just needs to add a PowerPC cpu to the x86 CPU. No need to go PowerPC only.

And in lets say 5 years  the WiiU CPU which is  an overclocked Wii CPU times 3 -which is an overclocked GameCube processor from around 1999 or someting should be pretty cheap. (I know that its heavily modified each time but still)


They will ensure backwards compatibility by adding a yet again overclocked WiiU/Wii/GC processor with probably 1 additional core. Why 4 cores?  Because the WiiU uses an ARM Dualcore CPU to handle OS/ Menu and security stuff. This is not needed when they can use the WiiU CPU for stuff like that and they will add a fourth core so they can even have security/menu/OS stuff going on while the WiiU mode uses the 3 other cores that existed in the original WiiU for gaming.

So if it will have BC it will go for X86 + WiiU CPU ( having a different GPU is almost completely irrelevant for BC so no need for the WiiU GPU to be in there. I mean WiiU can also play GC games without emulation!)


Would that make the console more expensive than just having all X86 or all PowerPC?  Also, since when can the Wii U play GC games without emulation?


Depends on how expensive a GC/Wii/WiiU cpu is compared to the architecture of the dual core "os/security CPU" which is used in the WiiU. if you have a WiiU CPU for all the OS/Security stuff you can drop the other CPU.

it can play Gamecube games without emulation since it has all the necessary hardware minus controller and memory card slots. Hackers made the WiiU play retail Gamecube disks after they made The WiiU's Pro controller work as a Gamecube controller replacement.




amak11 said:
JazzB1987 said:
PigPen said:
Nintendo will be smart and keep backward compatibility so yes.

  Because the WiiU uses an ARM Dualcore CPU to handle OS/ Menu and security stuff.

That's wrong, it uses an ARM tri-core CPU. Most games now don't even use the third-core of the Wii U. It will likely be the next generation ARM processor, and likely will be triple or double what the Wii U currently has in power. Also, Wii mode supports the tri-core processor as it's a custom OS. 

This would ensure backwards compatibility to Wii U and Wii, possible 4K/2K support. Would likely have 8gb of RAM, a slightly better GPU than what's in the PS4 and One.  In 5 years all this stuff would help Nintendo again create a 300 dollar machine because the basic rule of technology... Everything get's cheaper over time.



WiiU has a tri-core  CPU (Games like Darksiders 2 didnt make us of the third core of the PowerPC CPU) and a dual-core ARM CPU only for operating system/menu/security etc which is NOT at all used for gaming. Check your facts before you tell me that i am wrong :)


Nintendo can drop the dualcore ARM cpu and replace it with the WiiU tri-core CPU (add a fourth or fifth one so even in "WiiU-mode" running on the next console there will be a core or two left for security/OS while games like Zelda2015 use the other 3 for gaming that existed in the WiiU)

And add the new x86 Octacore or whatever for easy game development and porting of PS4 XBO and PC etc. games.


btw the gamepad itself also has a processor but I have no idea what kind of CPU it is. But I am pretty sure its more powerful than a GB/NES/SNES/GBA cpu.  I wish Nintendo would make the Gamepad a Virtual Console device that can store the last VC game you played on WiiU without the need for the WiiU itself to be turned on.  Make me play VC games on the gamepad while someone else is playing MarioKart8 with a Pro Controller!



Frogger on 02 August 2014
amak11 said:

It's not necessarily easier to develop for, but it's easier for developers to make games on. 

ARMs advantages mainly are lower power consumption and efficiency. This is just saying though, it would take only 4 cores of the PS4 to match/beat the CPU power of the Wii U ( and PS3 and 360) which is largely due to efficency. ARM is PowerPC, just for clarification so you don't get confused. Both terms are being thrown around here (Wii U cpu is ARM9). They wouldn't be able to maintain BC with the Wii U next gen if they went with x86 so it would be the same as PS4/XBO so starting from scratch. They wouldn't be able to emulate the Wii U on x86 (nor will any PC for the next 6 - 8 years). Wii is slightly possible, as with Gamecube (then again Gamecube is possible now on the Wii U if they chose to make a Gamecube app). It wouldn't be as simple as plugging a hard drive in to a new system (Wii U uses flash, same with Wii)

My thought on the Wii U currently is that they are rushing out account features and console features to catch up with the joneses. Then again, Nintendo did something Sony and MS could have done but didnt and a launched a social gamer network which is popular with devs and people alike. My suggestion is wait and see what they do with the Wii U feature wise in the next year or two and we'll go from there. If I'm right Nintendo will seperate all purchases on Wii Us in to dedicated accounts and launch it with a 3Ds successor which will be future compatible with the next home console and compatible with the Wii U. All this is shaping up to be a different Nintendo in 5 years. 


Wait, GCN is possible on the Wii U? How? Like could they simply use digital GCN games and run it on the Wii U with little fuss? Why isn't this being done?

If ARM is so good and everything, why does the Wii U need an emulator to run Wii games? Why can't it just run them on the Wii U OS like the Wii did with GCN games? Why isn't the Wii VC just the Wii U VC with no fuss? Why must they start from scratch?

Do you mean that the 3DS successor will be able to run some, or all, Wii U games, even if scaled down like with iOS games? Might I be able to play my digital copy of WWHD on my next gen Nintendo handheld?