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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel is getting out of hand

walsufnir on 21 July 2014
OfficerRaichu15 said:
JWeinCom said:
Israel left Gaza and began pulling out of the West Bank in 2005. Palestinians gave power to a radical group that began firing rockets at Israel. Egypt and Israel decided to blockade the region to prevent the group from getting supplies used to obtain weapons.

Hamas continually fires rockets at Israel. Rockets that do very little. The rockets don't pose a real threat to Israeli life. With an advanced rocket defense system and the low tech nature of the attacks, maybe 1 or 2 people will be killed in a month of rocket fire. Of course, any life lost is a tragedy, but it's clear that these attacks aren't going to take down Israel, or do much real damage. They're provocation.

They're provocation because Palestinians dying is good for Hamas. It increases hatred of Israel, and that hatred is what they use to rally people in support of them. It makes Israel look like murderers in the eyes of the international community (which may be fair since they are uhhhh you know murdering people) which they can use to apply international pressure for Israel to give into demands.

After about a week of bombing Egypt tried to broker peace between the two sides. Israel accepted and stopped firing. Hamas continued to fire rockets that would do absolutely nothing except provoke further attacks, and they made DEMANDS. How on Earth can a state with no real military strength make demands? What leverage do they have? The only leverage is their own dead citizens. They fire rockets from civilian locations, their leaders hide among civilians, and they hide rockets in schools (particularly in UN schools that were built to provide sanctuary to civilians).

Of course, Israel has a choice not to target these areas. These rockets don't produce much real human damage, and sparing hundreds of Palestinian civilians may only mean one of two casualties. Israel's policy seems to be that they are willing to kill dozens of Paletinians to save an Israeli life which is a stance I'm not sure I agree with.

However, whatever you want to say about Israel, you have to agree with this. Israel is a country whose primary interest is in the well being of its citizens. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about Hamas. If and when a government rises to power in Palestinian that truly is looking out for their citizens, the war will end as it does not serve anyone's best interests.

that was very intersting to read :P

and i also heard rumors saying israel told the gaza citizens to evacuate since they didnt want innocents to die

just a rumour though :P


Israel is well aware about the injustice that is happening there. They don't "win" anything if they kill innocent people - they want to get the terrorists of Hamas who hide in civilist's buildings to increase the collateral damage. But we know only very little on how people think in these areas. But perhaps a translated link (original is German) how the brainwashing starts even with children:

 

http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hagalil.com%2Farchiv%2F2006%2F03%2Fkinder.htm



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OfficerRaichu15 on 21 July 2014
walsufnir said:
OfficerRaichu15 said:
JWeinCom said:
Israel left Gaza and began pulling out of the West Bank in 2005. Palestinians gave power to a radical group that began firing rockets at Israel. Egypt and Israel decided to blockade the region to prevent the group from getting supplies used to obtain weapons.

Hamas continually fires rockets at Israel. Rockets that do very little. The rockets don't pose a real threat to Israeli life. With an advanced rocket defense system and the low tech nature of the attacks, maybe 1 or 2 people will be killed in a month of rocket fire. Of course, any life lost is a tragedy, but it's clear that these attacks aren't going to take down Israel, or do much real damage. They're provocation.

They're provocation because Palestinians dying is good for Hamas. It increases hatred of Israel, and that hatred is what they use to rally people in support of them. It makes Israel look like murderers in the eyes of the international community (which may be fair since they are uhhhh you know murdering people) which they can use to apply international pressure for Israel to give into demands.

After about a week of bombing Egypt tried to broker peace between the two sides. Israel accepted and stopped firing. Hamas continued to fire rockets that would do absolutely nothing except provoke further attacks, and they made DEMANDS. How on Earth can a state with no real military strength make demands? What leverage do they have? The only leverage is their own dead citizens. They fire rockets from civilian locations, their leaders hide among civilians, and they hide rockets in schools (particularly in UN schools that were built to provide sanctuary to civilians).

Of course, Israel has a choice not to target these areas. These rockets don't produce much real human damage, and sparing hundreds of Palestinian civilians may only mean one of two casualties. Israel's policy seems to be that they are willing to kill dozens of Paletinians to save an Israeli life which is a stance I'm not sure I agree with.

However, whatever you want to say about Israel, you have to agree with this. Israel is a country whose primary interest is in the well being of its citizens. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about Hamas. If and when a government rises to power in Palestinian that truly is looking out for their citizens, the war will end as it does not serve anyone's best interests.

that was very intersting to read :P

and i also heard rumors saying israel told the gaza citizens to evacuate since they didnt want innocents to die

just a rumour though :P


Israel is well aware about the injustice that is happening there. They don't "win" anything if they kill innocent people - they want to get the terrorists of Hamas who hide in civilist's buildings to increase the collateral damage. But we know only very little on how people think in these areas. But perhaps a translated link (original is German) how the brainwashing starts even with children:

 

http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hagalil.com%2Farchiv%2F2006%2F03%2Fkinder.htm

I'm just gonna end with what was above

remember the 40s



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crissindahouse on 21 July 2014

The problem with Israel's actions even if they really only want to defend their people and nothing more is that they only make it worse. Not only do they kill more innocent people in a week as the Hamas could do in years with their laughable rockets but they also only increase the hate of certain groups against them and these groups will have it even more easy to get more support in the future.

Israel can destroy tunnels to make it harder for Hamas but that will clearly not decrease the amount of innocent deaths nor will it decrease the number of people who are willing to fight against Israel.



JWeinCom on 21 July 2014
OfficerRaichu15 said:

that was very intersting to read :P

and i also heard rumors saying israel told the gaza citizens to evacuate since they didnt want innocents to die

just a rumour though :P


Israel absolutely does warn citizens to evacuate... That being said they still know that civilians will be killed.  Evacuating and leaving your life behind because your home may be bombed isn't exactly an easy thing, and if there is a high priority target, Israel will attack it regardless of civilians.

I would give Israel the benefit of the doubt and say that *most* of those in charge do not want to kill civilians.  However, they find pretty high levels of collateral damage acceptable.  



fighter on 21 July 2014
bubblegamer said:
Carl2291 said:

On Sky News now -

60 people wounded including 30 medical staff after tanks shelled Central Gaza Hospital.

How can anyone defend this?

Edit - Watch your quote trees people!

Well 3 people were killed in Israel, so that's how. Each civiliian there is worth 200 Palestinian you see..

that is a very twisted argument

it only incates how much desdain palestinian authorities have for their people - the moment palestians want peace Hamas will cease to exist and Israeli would have no reason to defend itself



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OfficerRaichu15 on 21 July 2014
JWeinCom said:
OfficerRaichu15 said:

that was very intersting to read :P

and i also heard rumors saying israel told the gaza citizens to evacuate since they didnt want innocents to die

just a rumour though :P


Israel absolutely does warn citizens to evacuate... That being said they still know that civilians will be killed.  Evacuating and leaving your life behind because your home may be bombed isn't exactly an easy thing, and if there is a high priority target, Israel will attack it regardless of civilians.

I would give Israel the benefit of the doubt and say that *most* of those in charge do not want to kill civilians.  However, they find pretty high levels of collateral damage acceptable.  

yeah i can agree with that



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Raichu's First Series:

First RPG?

First Fighter?

First Racer?

First Shooter?

First MMO?

First Horror?

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JWeinCom on 21 July 2014
crissindahouse said:

The problem with Israel's actions even if they really only want to defend their people and nothing more is that they only make it worse. Not only do they kill more innocent people in a week as the Hamas could do in years with their laughable rockets but they also only increase the hate of certain groups against them and these groups will have it even more easy to get more support in the future.

Israel can destroy tunnels to make it harder for Hamas but that will clearly not decrease the amount of innocent deaths nor will it decrease the number of people who are willing to fight against Israel.


I don't necessarily disagree with this, but what do you propose as an alternative?

If rockets were dropping on your city, and your government did nothing to prevent it, what would you do as a citizen? 



walsufnir on 21 July 2014
OfficerRaichu15 said:
walsufnir said:
OfficerRaichu15 said:

that was very intersting to read :P

and i also heard rumors saying israel told the gaza citizens to evacuate since they didnt want innocents to die

just a rumour though :P


Israel is well aware about the injustice that is happening there. They don't "win" anything if they kill innocent people - they want to get the terrorists of Hamas who hide in civilist's buildings to increase the collateral damage. But we know only very little on how people think in these areas. But perhaps a translated link (original is German) how the brainwashing starts even with children:

 

http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hagalil.com%2Farchiv%2F2006%2F03%2Fkinder.htm

I'm just gonna end with what was above

remember the 40s


What is so special about the 40's? What do you want to tell us? That jews have the right to defend themselves? Or that they are doing now the same like the Germans did to their ancestors?

We don't need the 40's for that, mind you. Genocides happened before and after "the 40's".



haxxiy on 21 July 2014

Yup. It's quite hilarious and saddening how the morons at Brussels and Washington discuss more sanctions against Russia because something a bunch of separatists probably did by mistake while being absolutely OK with Israel retaliating and killing hundreds because of one or two israelites killed by rockets. Talk about double standards much!

It makes me almost believe the conspiracy theories about Israel and jews and the banks and whatnot...

 



 

 

 

 

 

OfficerRaichu15 on 21 July 2014
walsufnir said:
OfficerRaichu15 said:
walsufnir said:
OfficerRaichu15 said:

that was very intersting to read :P

and i also heard rumors saying israel told the gaza citizens to evacuate since they didnt want innocents to die

just a rumour though :P


Israel is well aware about the injustice that is happening there. They don't "win" anything if they kill innocent people - they want to get the terrorists of Hamas who hide in civilist's buildings to increase the collateral damage. But we know only very little on how people think in these areas. But perhaps a translated link (original is German) how the brainwashing starts even with children:

 

http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hagalil.com%2Farchiv%2F2006%2F03%2Fkinder.htm

I'm just gonna end with what was above

remember the 40s


What is so special about the 40's? What do you want to tell us? That jews have the right to defend themselves? Or that they are doing now the same like the Germans did to their ancestors?

We don't need the 40's for that, mind you. Genocides happened before and after "the 40's".

yeah I'm sorry i was getting off topic :P



Bets:

(Won)Bet with TechoHobbit: He(Techno) says 10 million by January 1,2014 I say 9 million by then. Winner gets 2 weeks of sig control.

(Lost)Bet with kinisking: I say Ps4 will win April NPD while he says Xbox One will win it; winner gets 1 week of avatar control.

Raichu's First Series:

First RPG?

First Fighter?

First Racer?

First Shooter?

First MMO?

First Horror?

Official Ni No Kuni Fanboy:

Familiars Captured:37

Game Beaten: 2 times almost

Times I got teary during some scenes: 3