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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel is getting out of hand

JWeinCom said:

Israel withdrew unilaterally from Gaza in 2005, and it didn't help.  Part of the problem is that the region as a whole, save for Israel, is unstable.  Terrorism and violence is not the exception in Israel, it's the case in all of the middle East.  It's certainly not as though Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen and so on so forth are orderly Islamic utopias.  All of these countries have pretty extreme issues.  

When there is a vacuum of power (as in Gaza after 2005 when Israel left), it is typically extremist groups that rise to power.  Palestine, with no established military, a disenfranchised and (yes) mistreated people, and bordering a Jewish state is especially vulnerable to extremists.  Israel leaving Palestine to its own devices would likely lead to Hamas establishing a very very extremist state which would obviously present a huge national security risk.

Have you looked at the Gaza strip on Googlemaps lately? It's basically a city with a wall around it. 1.8 million people in 147 sq miles. It's not sustainable. I don't know who had the brilliant idea of carving it up like that, but he surely didn't have peace in mind. The way to stop extremists is to not give people reasons to support them, or rather give them reasons to actively denounce them. Apparently locking people away or violence doesn't do it.



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Really, do you believe this propaganda shit. Israel knows very well the best of Nazi and Soviet Propaganda! I lived in Poland, for quite some time, bro, a country that felt like a sandwich between the Nazi Germany and the Stalinist Soviet. I am immune to both types of propaganda! Just watch the following video and UNDERSTAND THE ISRAELI TERROR. No terror can ever match what Israel does as a state, not even close!

http://www.frequency.com/video/ya-allah-hancurkanlah-tentera-israel/181100300/-/5-241


Thats terribly disturbing, and also a very good reason for Hamas to accept the cease fire agreement that Israel had accepted so this could end.  


This is not news. Israel has been doing this systematically for years, before and after Hamas. They killed over 500 people for what? A few rocket fires. Then go find those who are responsible. Why are you killing innocent civilians and bombing houses, and mosques and hospitals and schools? Why are you punishin innocent people for something that Hamas does?

 

Its because ISRAEL is a racist terrorist state, which doesn't care about killing children or else, that's why.

Because, they are not fighting an organized military that can easily be targeted.  There is no military base to be attacked, and no rocket site that is located a mile away from civilian homes.  Hamas is acting in a way which, intentionally or unintentionally, puts their civilians at risk.  

I don't believe Israel has any desire to kill children, but all the same they have shown they are willing to, to protect their civilians.  I'm not saying I agree with this ( because I'm still trying to decide exactly how I feel), but what is Hamas (which by the way is the governing body of Palestine not a rogue terrorist organization), doing to protect their people?

Again I'll ask, when a deal brokered by Egypt was sitting on the table and Israel accepted, why did Hamas refuse it?  With no way to protect their people against air strikes, why wouldn't they simply agree and protect their people?  Hamas' priority is clearly not the protection of their people.



SvennoJ said:
JWeinCom said:
 

Israel withdrew unilaterally from Gaza in 2005, and it didn't help.  Part of the problem is that the region as a whole, save for Israel, is unstable.  Terrorism and violence is not the exception in Israel, it's the case in all of the middle East.  It's certainly not as though Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen and so on so forth are orderly Islamic utopias.  All of these countries have pretty extreme issues.  

When there is a vacuum of power (as in Gaza after 2005 when Israel left), it is typically extremist groups that rise to power.  Palestine, with no established military, a disenfranchised and (yes) mistreated people, and bordering a Jewish state is especially vulnerable to extremists.  Israel leaving Palestine to its own devices would likely lead to Hamas establishing a very very extremist state which would obviously present a huge national security risk.

Have you looked at the Gaza strip on Googlemaps lately? It's basically a city with a wall around it. 1.8 million people in 147 sq miles. It's not sustainable. I don't know who had the brilliant idea of carving it up like that, but he surely didn't have peace in mind. The way to stop extremists is to not give people reasons to support them, or rather give them reasons to actively denounce them. Apparently locking people away or violence doesn't do it.

And then why is every other nation in the region (save Israel and maybe Iran), having issues with violence and terror?  Obviously the situation in Gaza has to change for peace to be achieved, but land is not the only factor here.  What viable course of action do you suggest for Israel?

Edit:  At any rate, I'm not going to be responding to this topic anymore.  I'm still not 100% sure on my own opinion.  I obviously do not want to see any more dead people, but Hamas does not seem willing to have peace and possesses a martyr mentality that puts their citizens at risk.  I'm not exactly sure what Israel should do, although I'm inclined to support them more because of their willingness to agree to a ceasefire.

Thank you to people on both sides for providing food for though.  All I can really say for sure right now is that I hope the matter is resolved swiftly with as little bloodshed as possible.



JWeinCom said:


Really, do you believe this propaganda shit. Israel knows very well the best of Nazi and Soviet Propaganda! I lived in Poland, for quite some time, bro, a country that felt like a sandwich between the Nazi Germany and the Stalinist Soviet. I am immune to both types of propaganda! Just watch the following video and UNDERSTAND THE ISRAELI TERROR. No terror can ever match what Israel does as a state, not even close!

http://www.frequency.com/video/ya-allah-hancurkanlah-tentera-israel/181100300/-/5-241


Thats terribly disturbing, and also a very good reason for Hamas to accept the cease fire agreement that Israel had accepted so this could end.  


This is not news. Israel has been doing this systematically for years, before and after Hamas. They killed over 500 people for what? A few rocket fires. Then go find those who are responsible. Why are you killing innocent civilians and bombing houses, and mosques and hospitals and schools? Why are you punishin innocent people for something that Hamas does?

 

Its because ISRAEL is a racist terrorist state, which doesn't care about killing children or else, that's why.

Because, they are not fighting an organized military that can easily be targeted.  There is no military base to be attacked, and no rocket site that is located a mile away from civilian homes.  Hamas is acting in a way which, intentionally or unintentionally, puts their civilians at risk.  

I don't believe Israel has any desire to kill children, but all the same they have shown they are willing to, to protect their civilians.  I'm not saying I agree with this ( because I'm still trying to decide exactly how I feel), but what is Hamas (which by the way is the governing body of Palestine not a rogue terrorist organization), doing to protect their people?

Again I'll ask, when a deal brokered by Egypt was sitting on the table and Israel accepted, why did Hamas refuse it?  With no way to protect their people against air strikes, why wouldn't they simply agree and protect their people?  Hamas' priority is clearly not the protection of their people.


If Israel has no desire to kill children , why is it killing HUNDREDS OF THEM, then!???? Israel has killed more children than all countries on earth in the last year! Explain that!

Hamas's fault lies on their shoulders, not the innocent people Israel has been killing. Please do not pretend like you care about hundreds of people getting brutally killed, you don't. You should be ashamed of yourself for defending such a merciless brutal and terrorist state. Israeli government is a DEADLY PARASITE on Earth. It is a parasite on American People the most. They have been sucking American Tax dollars, billions of them each and every single year to spend on reckless and merciless wars to kill innocent people.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

freedquaker said:
JWeinCom said:


Thats terribly disturbing, and also a very good reason for Hamas to accept the cease fire agreement that Israel had accepted so this could end.  


This is not news. Israel has been doing this systematically for years, before and after Hamas. They killed over 500 people for what? A few rocket fires. Then go find those who are responsible. Why are you killing innocent civilians and bombing houses, and mosques and hospitals and schools? Why are you punishin innocent people for something that Hamas does?

 

Its because ISRAEL is a racist terrorist state, which doesn't care about killing children or else, that's why.

And Palestine cares? If they had the power, Palestine would be doing the same to Israel, heck probably even worse.

Palestine (more specifically Hamas) wants Israel dead, simple as that..."We love death as much as Israel loves life" is their lemma, they have said that in public in various occasions...and as JWeinCom has mentioned throughout the thread, Hamas is willing to use civilians as shield...

And let me ask you something, if you call this "propaganda shit" why can't the Palestine reports also be "propaganda shit"? It's all propaganda after all...what makes one less valid or more valid?

One of the purposes of Hamas is to create international hate for the Israel state, how many of those reports can you truly believe?

In any case, does this make Israel the "good guy"? of course not, neither side is good. One side wants the other death and the other is willing to go to extremes for their safety.



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Kyuu said:
curl-6 said:
Attempts to paint either side as innocent are spin when both have civilian blood on their hands.


 

The numbers speak for themselves.

Being on the losing side doesn't make you righteous. Both IDF and Hamas murder civilians, so both are guilty of unforgiveable behaviour.



curl-6 said:
Kyuu said:
curl-6 said:
Attempts to paint either side as innocent are spin when both have civilian blood on their hands.


 

The numbers speak for themselves.

Being on the losing side doesn't make you righteous. Both IDF and Hamas murder civilians, so both are guilty of unforgiveable behaviour.

Exactly. The only reason those "Israelis killed" numbers aren't higher is because the defense system of Israel is by far one of the best in world. It's hard for a Palestinian missile to reach their target. If this wasn't the case, the numbers would most likely be very similar.



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osed125 said:
freedquaker said:
JWeinCom said:


Thats terribly disturbing, and also a very good reason for Hamas to accept the cease fire agreement that Israel had accepted so this could end.  


This is not news. Israel has been doing this systematically for years, before and after Hamas. They killed over 500 people for what? A few rocket fires. Then go find those who are responsible. Why are you killing innocent civilians and bombing houses, and mosques and hospitals and schools? Why are you punishin innocent people for something that Hamas does?

 

Its because ISRAEL is a racist terrorist state, which doesn't care about killing children or else, that's why.

And Palestine cares? If they had the power, Palestine would be doing the same to Israel, heck probably even worse.

Palestine (more specifically Hamas) wants Israel dead, simple as that..."We love death as much as Israel loves life" is their lemma, they have said that in public in various occasions...and as JWeinCom has mentioned throughout the thread, Hamas is willing to use civilians as shield...

And let me ask you something, if you call this "propaganda shit" why can't the Palestine reports also be "propaganda shit"? It's all propaganda after all...what makes one less valid or more valid?

One of the purposes of Hamas is to create international hate for the Israel state, how many of those reports can you truly believe?

In any case, does this make Israel the "good guy"? of course not, neither side is good. One side wants the other death and the other is willing to go to extremes for their safety.


Don't talk to me with ASSUMPTIONS, talk to me with FACTS. Israel killed hundred of civilians, and children, wounded many more. Hamas so far only killed a few soldiers. Even if Hamas would civilians, this still does not give right Israel to go killing spree of civilians. NO!!!

There is No Palestinian report, all there is INTERNATIONAL OBJECTIVE JOURNALISM WHICH IS SHARED EVERYWHERE IN ALL COUNTRIES FREELY. All Palestinian news are done under United Nationas supervision. Everything Israel says is pure speculation, with no Journalism whatsoever. Ask any Journalist who has been there live and get your answer. ENOUGH of this MASSACRE AND LIES.

Heck, even the Jewish Tribunal lists at least 1 to 20 deaths. Why? Because Israel predominantly kills civilians, that is a fact. 9 out 10 people Israel kills is an innocent civilian. This is not war, this is MASSACRE, heck GENOCIDE.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

curl-6 said:
Kyuu said:
curl-6 said:
Attempts to paint either side as innocent are spin when both have civilian blood on their hands.


 

The numbers speak for themselves.

Being on the losing side doesn't make you righteous. Both IDF and Hamas murder civilians, so both are guilty of unforgiveable behaviour.


What losing side are you talking about? One side has a large well trained army, navy, and everything. There is no army or any kind of defense on the other side. There is no other side. There is just a defenseless people, who are trying to cope with an invading occupier the best they can.

One thing you should notice... This is official figures from the Israeli side. Even then, you can't help noticing that the yellow bars are 10 times longer the dark ones! Does it look like balanced to you? You only see what you wanna see.

"Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army, and calls it a war. IT IS NOT WAR, IT IS MURDER."
~Noam Chomsky, famous Jewish Philosopher & Linguist



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

freedquaker said:
osed125 said:

And Palestine cares? If they had the power, Palestine would be doing the same to Israel, heck probably even worse.

Palestine (more specifically Hamas) wants Israel dead, simple as that..."We love death as much as Israel loves life" is their lemma, they have said that in public in various occasions...and as JWeinCom has mentioned throughout the thread, Hamas is willing to use civilians as shield...

And let me ask you something, if you call this "propaganda shit" why can't the Palestine reports also be "propaganda shit"? It's all propaganda after all...what makes one less valid or more valid?

One of the purposes of Hamas is to create international hate for the Israel state, how many of those reports can you truly believe?

In any case, does this make Israel the "good guy"? of course not, neither side is good. One side wants the other death and the other is willing to go to extremes for their safety.


Don't talk to me with ASSUMPTIONS, talk to me with FACTS. Israel killed hundred of civilians, and children, wounded many more. Hamas so far only killed a few soldiers. Even if Hamas would civilians, this still does not give right Israel to go killing spree of civilians. NO!!!

There is No Palestinian report, all there is INTERNATIONAL OBJECTIVE JOURNALISM WHICH IS SHARED EVERYWHERE IN ALL COUNTRIES FREELY. All Palestinian news are done under United Nationas supervision. Everything Israel says is pure speculation, with no Journalism whatsoever. Ask any Journalist who has been there live and get your answer. ENOUGH of this MASSACRE AND LIES.

Heck, even the Jewish Tribunal lists at least 1 to 20 deaths. Why? Because Israel predominantly kills civilians, that is a fact. 9 out 10 people Israel kills is an innocent civilian. This is not war, this is MASSACRE, heck GENOCIDE.

First, calm down.

Second, it seems you have ignored everything JWeinCom has said throughout the thread and what I mentioned as well. Hamas doesn't give a flying fuck what it happens to its people. Don't think there's a need to say it again but might as well: Hamas uses schools, hospitals and civilian houses to store bombs, missiles and themselves, all with the purpose of using them to attack Israel...so what does Israel do? they go the the extreme and attack those places.

In my opinion, Hamas is the biggest problem here, in their...let's say obsession to destroy Israel they as well go to extremes and they made up stuff as well (someone here posted a link of a video explaining how the Palestinian government (with the help of a France TV channel) blamed a kid's death to Israel with in fact they had nothing to do with it). Heck, if it wasn't for Hamas, there would probably be peace by now since Fatah had at least the initiative for peace between the 2 states...but Hamas ended that possibility.

If Israel were truly that evil, they would have wiped the rest of the Palestinians by now. They definitely have the power to it. It is well documented and well known that Israel acknowledges the right of the Palestinian state to exists (which isn't the case the other way around).

Peace can be found when Hamas decides to cease fire. It happened with Egypt it can happen with Palestine. 



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