By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - The mobile market shows the danger of parity

VanceIX said:
gergroy said:

Basically meaning that the majority of the pc gaming community would have to settle of an unoptimized piece of garbage with all the settings turned down at the expense of the minority.  

Do you own a gaming PC? When you downgrade, of course it looks worse, what do you expect? That doesn't mean it looks like a mess. A recent example is Star Citizen. Optimised for high-end cards, but looks and plays just fine on medium-specced cards on lower settings. When you lower the quality, you don't magically lose optimisation, you just make it look like what it would on consoles, or what your hardware is capable of.


I have an out dated gaming pc.  Stopped playing games on the pc a while ago.  Also, you do lose optimization.  Games are optimized to run at a certain configuration, if your pc isnt good enough, you can turn off settings, but the visual result will be far less than if it had been optimized to run at those settings.  It may be playable to olay a game without most of the shaders, lighting stuff turned on, but it woukd be an inferior product to that of most console games.  

If a game was optimized to run on the high end of PC's, if you tried to play it on a mid range pc it would look way worse than what the current consoles can output because the console games are fully optimized to run at their specs.  Even though that PC would technically be better than the consoles in almost every category.  

Developers are smart enough to realize this and develop their games with the majority in mind, not the minority.  



Around the Network
gergroy said:
VanceIX said:

Do you own a gaming PC? When you downgrade, of course it looks worse, what do you expect? That doesn't mean it looks like a mess. A recent example is Star Citizen. Optimised for high-end cards, but looks and plays just fine on medium-specced cards on lower settings. When you lower the quality, you don't magically lose optimisation, you just make it look like what it would on consoles, or what your hardware is capable of.


I have an out dated gaming pc.  Stopped playing games on the pc a while ago.  Also, you do lose optimization.  Games are optimized to run at a certain configuration, if your pc isnt good enough, you can turn off settings, but the visual result will be far less than if it had been optimized to run at those settings.  It may be playable to olay a game without most of the shaders, lighting stuff turned on, but it woukd be an inferior product to that of most console games.  

If a game was optimized to run on the high end of PC's, if you tried to play it on a mid range pc it would look way worse than what the current consoles can output because the console games are fully optimized to run at their specs.  Even though that PC would technically be better than the consoles in almost every category.  

Developers are smart enough to realize this and develop their games with the majority in mind, not the minority.  

Absolutely wrong. Once again, I don't know when you last played PC games, but the market is very different today. If you play Crisis 3 on PC on a high-end card, it blows away the console version. If you play it on medium, it still looks better than the console version. It's all the matter of how a game is optimised. You don't neccessarily optimise a game for the high-end cards per se, but for PCs in general. That way, when you lower the setting, all you do is lose out on some effects like AA or high-end textures, while still keeping a great looking game.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

VanceIX said:

That's because game devs develop for the weakest hardware in order to save developmental costs while also providing the same game experience, whether you have a three year old phone or a brand new phone. This results in the vast majority of games not being close to their potential.

I do not agree with this. Its not parity its that the majority of phone games are quickly churned out garbage to make a quick buck or (in the case of failure) not lose any money.

It hink its pretty certain that the majority of "hardcore"(those that spend money on console gaming regularly)gamers dont see phones as a viable place to game. There is mountains of garbage with some hidden gems so a lot of the "hardcore" dont see it as a viable platform. The controls stink too and dedicated handhelds have much more deep gaming experiences. Its a chicken and egg example of publishers not taking chances cause they dont feel there is an audience and the audience not taking chances because there isnt any good games. I dont feel it is too different than the Wii U 3rd party problems.



Getting an XBOX One for me is like being in a bad relationship but staying together because we have kids. XBone we have 20000+ achievement points, 2+ years of XBL Gold and 20000+ MS points. I think its best we stay together if only for the MS points.

Nintendo Treehouse is what happens when a publisher is confident and proud of its games and doesn't need to show CGI lies for five minutes.

-Jim Sterling

VanceIX said:
gergroy said:

I have an out dated gaming pc.  Stopped playing games on the pc a while ago.  Also, you do lose optimization.  Games are optimized to run at a certain configuration, if your pc isnt good enough, you can turn off settings, but the visual result will be far less than if it had been optimized to run at those settings.  It may be playable to olay a game without most of the shaders, lighting stuff turned on, but it woukd be an inferior product to that of most console games.  

If a game was optimized to run on the high end of PC's, if you tried to play it on a mid range pc it would look way worse than what the current consoles can output because the console games are fully optimized to run at their specs.  Even though that PC would technically be better than the consoles in almost every category.  

Developers are smart enough to realize this and develop their games with the majority in mind, not the minority.  

Absolutely wrong. Once again, I don't know when you last played PC games, but the market is very different today. If you play Crisis 3 on PC on a high-end card, it blows away the console version. If you play it on medium, it still looks better than the console version. It's all the matter of how a game is optimised. You don't neccessarily optimise a game for the high-end cards per se, but for PCs in general. That way, when you lower the setting, all you do is lose out on some effects like AA or high-end textures, while still keeping a great looking game.

Again, bad comparison.  Crysis 3 is not on current consoles, it is only on last gen consoles.  If you had a pc with the specs of a last gen console, good luck getting crysis 3 to run at all on it.  

Also, there is a reason pc games list an optimal specs required and a minimum.  The games are optimized at certain specs, but you can play a gimped minimal requirement if you want.  If they werent optimized for a specific spec, they wouldnt list it.  

Anyway, we can go round and round all day, so Im just going to end the conversation by saying it is smart for developers to make pc games optimized for lower specs.  It is much easier to find your audience that way.  I mean look at Blizzard, most successful pc developer there is and none of their games are optimized for high end PC's.  Just some food for thought for you. 



Responsible financial decisions for sustaining the company > omg graphix



Platinums: Red Dead Redemption, Killzone 2, LittleBigPlanet, Terminator Salvation, Uncharted 1, inFamous Second Son, Rocket League

Around the Network
gergroy said:
VanceIX said:
Intrinsic said:
I think your post, while meaning well is also disingenuous. This is cause of how much you seem to know about what you are saying and then the somewhat strange conclusion you arrived at.

Two things, first. No developer "gimps" a game for parity. Its kinda impossible to do when you think about it. Cause to accomplish it would mean that you would have to put in extra work to make the game run worse. This misconception is based off gullible people either believing what they see of games either in bullshots or extremely early in development footage or footage running off industrial grade hardware.

Secondly, this isn't all some sort of conspiracy. Its really straight forward. When a developer sets out to make a game, they always have a target in their head (this part you touched on and i agree with). If a deveoper is making a multiplatform game, then what they would do is simply try and optimize the game for weakest hardware. Simply cause if they get it running on the weakest hardware then everything else can run it.

What consoles represent to PCs is the minimum best standard, cause as console hardware become more similar to PCs, developers can just focus on the console knowing that PCs would be able to run them just fine. But no one sets out to gimp a game in the name of parity.

Watch Dogs for PC was very much gimped. Modders even found the original graphics in the game files, and found that the game not only looked better but even ran better with those.

Also, Destiny is being gimped on the PS4 due to Bungie wanting the same experience across all platforms, including last-gen. It could easily his 60fps, but is locked to 30.


PC is a TERRIBLE example to use.  Are you saying that PC games should be optimized for only the high end systems?  That would eliminate like 95% of the pc gaming market.  Developers are smart to keep their requirements lower on PC's, it doesnt really have anything to do with consoles at all...

This seems to make more sense to me.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

outlawauron said:
gergroy said:


PC is a TERRIBLE example to use.  Are you saying that PC games should be optimized for only the high end systems?  That would eliminate like 95% of the pc gaming market.  Developers are smart to keep their requirements lower on PC's, it doesnt really have anything to do with consoles at all...

This seems to make more sense to me.

Probably right, I was just throwing out a conservative number.



WhiteEaglePL said:
I dont care but phone games are the worst hands down.

There are only VERY FEW and hard to find gems that are actually worthile and meaningful, others? please,.....

Though haveing one or 2 like that "all for money scumbugs" games as time wasters is fine lol. I have Samurai Seige which is a CoC type game and its bad, but the best of those type games!

Badlands is very indielike, and there was a game where you played as a Android....AMAZING.


I agree, even great games are crippled on mobile due to the woeful controls. JAZZ: Trump's Journey was a really promising iOS/Android game that was ruined by touch screen controls for me. It has been ported to Vita and released this week and wow, it's a fantastic little 2D platformer.

Parity overall is desirable to some extent, as in you want the core experience to be the same. You only need to look back to the 80s to see just how bad a huge disparity between games on different formats was to see why some level of parity is required. However full technical parity will always be for the lowest common denominator which is not good for the superior hardware.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

outlawauron said:
gergroy said:


PC is a TERRIBLE example to use.  Are you saying that PC games should be optimized for only the high end systems?  That would eliminate like 95% of the pc gaming market.  Developers are smart to keep their requirements lower on PC's, it doesnt really have anything to do with consoles at all...

This seems to make more sense to me.

It does, if you aren't a PC gamer. PC games aren't optimised for high-end graphic per se, but for PC in general. The entire argument is flawed.

gergroy said:

Again, bad comparison.  Crysis 3 is not on current consoles, it is only on last gen consoles.  If you had a pc with the specs of a last gen console, good luck getting crysis 3 to run at all on it.  

Also, there is a reason pc games list an optimal specs required and a minimum.  The games are optimized at certain specs, but you can play a gimped minimal requirement if you want.  If they werent optimized for a specific spec, they wouldnt list it.  

Anyway, we can go round and round all day, so Im just going to end the conversation by saying it is smart for developers to make pc games optimized for lower specs.  It is much easier to find your audience that way.  I mean look at Blizzard, most successful pc developer there is and none of their games are optimized for high end PC's.  Just some food for thought for you. 

Trust me, the current consoles are already far outpaced by PCs and it's just going to get worse from here, so the Crisis comparison is very accurate.

Yes, there is a reason they list optimal specs. That's what I'm saying. You will always have the option of playing a lower-quality version of a game on PC if your hardware can't run it. Doesn't mean that the high-end option needs to be held back at all, so I don't see your point.

And I agree that Blizzard sells a lot, but their most iconic game (World of Warcraft) is very old, so of course it will run on low-specced PCs. Also, their second best-selling franchise is a hack-and-slash up-view RPG, a genre that was never taxing in the first place. You chose a poor developer to mention. Why not RSI, who have a high-end game that has already raise $45 million from crowd funding alone? Or the Witcher series, which has consistently pushed out amazing visuals on PC? Both games push out incredible visuals, regardless of whether you play ultra or medium. 

That's being optimised for PC.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

VanceIX said:
small44 said:
VanceIX said:
ikki5 said:

See, the thing is about phones though, is people don't buy them for games. Games on them are just extras. I see a lot of posts how so many more people have phones but lets face it, only a fraction of those are people that actually go to play games on them regularily. People get phones for communication where as the handhelds are for gaming and if people want a handheld, they will probably look to the handhelds over the phones. This may change and it may inhibit the handhelds currently but I doubt phones will take over the handheld gaming sector in the near future.

You'd be surprised about just how much game revenue phones provide. Sure, people don't neccessarily buy  for games, but for most people the only gaming they do is on their phones.

98% of revenue are from f2p  game with great graphics mean bigger budget mean more expensive games and Smartphone gamers won't pay more then 1$ for a game

Really? Last I checked, Minecraft, Final Fantasy 3/4/5/6, Chaos Rings I/II, Grand Theft Auto III/SA/VC, and Dragon Quest 8 were all doing amazingly well, and they are all paid games.

I never see any number about those games

The source about  98% of mobile games revenues is f2p:

http://venturebeat.com/2014/06/23/google-play-growing-growing-growing-downloads-up-1-5x-revenue-up-2-5x/



PS4 - over 100 millions let's say 120m
Xbox One - 70m
Wii U - 25m

Vita - 15m if it will not get Final Fantasy Kingdoms Heart and Monster Hunter 20m otherwise
3DS - 80m