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Forums - Gaming - I miss my favourite genre

HoloDust on 21 June 2014
mornelithe said:
I miss puzzle adventurer's like Myst, the 7th Hour and the 11th Guest...though, I think the Witness will be kind of reviving that genre.

Well, not that the genre ever died or, besides Myst, was that much popular in mainstream for starters. There's still quite a few games released yearly in the genre, but then again, it did suffer a lot more than classic P&C adventures.

I do wish someone matching Riven, but honestly, from what I've seen so far, Witness is not that game.



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Faxanadu on 21 June 2014
BasilZero said:
Faxanadu said:

So what is the difference between ALttP and Terranigma / Illusion of Time that you say they are different genres?


You seriously dont see the difference between ALttP which is a Action-Adventure....and Terranigma which is a Adventure-RPG o.O?

Terranigma is a RPG that mainly involves you leveling up like a normal RPG - equipping gear to increase your base stats - its like a pre-cursor to Kingdom hearts in a way.

Zelda is a action-Adventure, you dont level up, you dont equip gear to increase stats. You have a heart bar not a HP reading like a RPG.

No I dont see a difference. The main play mechanics are almost identical. In one the health bar is hearts, in the other something else. Who cares? You can increase it. In one you have more armour option, in the other at some point you get something that cuts enemy damage by 50%. Who cares? Its the same thing. You walk around and hit enemies and you have a top down view and you have temples and you solve puzzles. How your stats increase is a absoluteley secondary or tertiary play mechanic that for me is no reason to put those to games in two different categories. Especially since the play almost identically.

Same with Illusion of Gaia and actually also Secret of Mana etc..

With Chrono Trigger, the main play mechanics are a bit different.



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Conina on 21 June 2014
Faxanadu said:

With Chrono Trigger, the main play mechanics are a bit different.

"A bit" different? That's the understatement of the year. Link is controlled directly, in Chrono Trigger you have no direct control in fights... you give commands to your party members.



Faxanadu on 21 June 2014
Conina said:
Faxanadu said:

With Chrono Trigger, the main play mechanics are a bit different.

"A bit" different? That's the understatement of the year. Link is controlled directly, in Chrono Trigger you have no direct control in fights... you give commands to your party members.

Yes, but the other 50%, i.e. "running around" play rather similar...



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Conina on 21 June 2014
Faxanadu said:

The simple and straight forward stories, the wonderful graphics, the precision gameplay, not having to worry about unprecise 3D-movement?

...

Any indie games I need to check out? Any developer who has the balls to take on the greatest game genre ever conceived?

Okay, if a wonderful story (with great humor) and running around in 2d-areas and talking with NPCs is your thing, you should really check out "To the Moon". The music is also superb.

It's on PC, but a netbook or an ancient pentium 3 are enough: http://store.steampowered.com/app/206440/ 



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Faxanadu on 21 June 2014
Conina said:
Faxanadu said:

The simple and straight forward stories, the wonderful graphics, the precision gameplay, not having to worry about unprecise 3D-movement?

...

Any indie games I need to check out? Any developer who has the balls to take on the greatest game genre ever conceived?

Okay, if a wonderful story (with great humor) and running around in 2d-areas and talking with NPCs is your thing, you should really check out "To the Moon". The music is also superb.

It's on PC, but a netbook or an ancient pentium 3 are enough: http://store.steampowered.com/app/206440/ 

I have seen and enjoyed to the moon on youtube. But thanks, otherwise great recommendation.



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TheLastStarFighter on 21 June 2014
BasilZero said:
Faxanadu said:
BasilZero said:
Link to the past isnt a RPG....

Anyways, you mean the adventure RPG genre? I still play the older games - I've played my 3rd playthrough of Terranigma last year and I'm thinking of playing Sword of Mana sometime in the future along with Secret of Mana sometime in the future.


None of the games I listed is an RPG. Except maybe Chrono Trigger a bit.


Secret of Mana, Terranigma, Illusion of Gaia are extensions of the RPG genre - they are adventure RPGs as I label them and some people label them as Action RPGs although I would prefer calling games like Star Ocean and Tales Of series as action RPGs.

Wow, first you dispute the greatness of Xenoblade,  then you say Mana is an RPG. I'm starting to question your sanity. FYI, upon release Squaresoft labeled the Mana series Final Fantasy Adventure, and considered the games in the same genre as Zelda, if.that helps you realize how wrong you are on this among other things. 



Faxanadu on 21 June 2014
BasilZero said:
Faxanadu said:

No I dont see a difference. The main play mechanics are almost identical. In one the health bar is hearts, in the other something else. Who cares? You can increase it. In one you have more armour option, in the other at some point you get something that cuts enemy damage by 50%. Who cares? Its the same thing. You walk around and hit enemies and you have a top down view and you have temples and you solve puzzles. How your stats increase is a absoluteley secondary or tertiary play mechanic that for me is no reason to put those to games in two different categories. Especially since the play almost identically.

Same with Illusion of Gaia and actually also Secret of Mana etc..

With Chrono Trigger, the main play mechanics are a bit different.


So basically TPS and FPS are the same genre? lol

The industry as a whole labels both Zelda and the other games as different genres not only because they say they are but because they are fundamentally different game types.

Just because they have a health being different, does that mean Super Mario 64 is the same?

How your stats increase is not secondary.....they DO affect the gameplay completely. In the Legend of Zelda your damage output is based upon your weapons/items/tools, in the other games Stats, buffs AND weapons make up the bulk of the battle mechanics.

----

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, known as Zelda no Densetsu: Kamigami no Triforce (ゼルダの伝説 神々のトライフォース Zeruda no Densetsu: Kamigami no Toraifōsu?, lit. "The Legend of Zelda: The Triforce of the Gods") in Japan, is a 2D action-adventure video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System video game console.

Terranigma, known as Tenchi Sōzō (天地創造?, officially translated The Creation of Heaven and Earth)[1] in Japan, is a 1995 action role-playing game for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System developed by Quintet.

Secret of Mana, originally released in Japan as Seiken Densetsu 2 (聖剣伝説2?, lit. "Legend of the Sacred Sword 2"), is a 1993 action role-playing game developed and published by Square (now Square Enix) for the SNES.

Illusion of Gaia (ガイア幻想紀 Gaia Gensōki?, lit. "Records of the Illusion of Gaia"),[1] known in Europe and Australia as Illusion of Time, is an action role-playing game that was released on September 1, 1994, for the Super NES.

Kingdom Hearts (キングダム ハーツ Kingudamu Hātsu?) is a series of action role-playing games developed and published by Square Enix (originally by Square).

 

 

So in other words, who cares? The Industry that defines the two genre types and the fans who dedicate their time to enjoy both genres.

For me, there does not exist a clear cut boundary between thos two genres. The line is rather arbitrary and can be drawn on the left or right of secret of mana. In fact, it is a fluent transition for action adventure to RPG, and all those games lie somewhere in the middle. Sure, Zelda and Allundra might be a bit more AA, the comes IoT, then Terranigma, then SoM, but all in all, they are 80% similar at least.

And I can also quote wikipedia:

Terranigma (jap. 天地創造 Tenchi Sōzō, wörtlich: Erschaffung von Himmel und Erde) ist ein Videospiel und Genremix aus Action-Adventure und Rollenspiel in einem Fantasy-Szenario.

Illusion of Time (jap. ガイア幻想紀, Gaia Gensōki, dt. „Aufzeichnungen der Illusion von Gaia“; in den Vereinigten Staaten als Illusion of Gaia erschienen) ist ein Action-Adventure-Videospiel mit leichten Rollenspieleinflüssen,...Die Spielmechanik ähnelt stark den Zelda-Spielen sowie in manchen Aspekten auch Secret of Mana und dem später erschienen Terranigma.



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Faxanadu on 21 June 2014
BasilZero said:
Faxanadu said:

For me, there does not exist a clear cut boundary between thos two genres. The line is rather arbitrary and can be drawn on the left or right of secret of mana. In fact, it is a fluent transition for action adventure to RPG, and all those games lie somewhere in the middle. Sure, Zelda and Allundra might be a bit more AA, the comes IoT, then Terranigma, then SoM, but all in all, they are 80% similar at least.

And I can also quote wikipedia:

Terranigma (jap. 天地創造 Tenchi Sōzō, wörtlich: Erschaffung von Himmel und Erde) ist ein Videospiel und Genremix aus Action-Adventure und Rollenspiel in einem Fantasy-Szenario.

Illusion of Time (jap. ガイア幻想紀, Gaia Gensōki, dt. „Aufzeichnungen der Illusion von Gaia“; in den Vereinigten Staaten als Illusion of Gaia erschienen) ist ein Action-Adventure-Videospiel mit leichten Rollenspieleinflüssen,...Die Spielmechanik ähnelt stark den Zelda-Spielen sowie in manchen Aspekten auch Secret of Mana und dem später erschienen Terranigma.


Discrepancies between facts of course 

So let me ask you, are you saying that The Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword is a RPG like Kingdom Hearts? Clearly they are not the same genre.

One is a Action Adventure and the other one is a Action/Adventure RPG.

What does a horrible abomination that are the 3D Zeldas have to do with anything? They added broken gameplay mechanics like jumping in a 3D world to Zelda when they reinvented / destroyed the series by moving into 3D, totally changing the gameplay. Those broken gameply mechanics didnt exist in the tight to control 2D Zelda universe, where the controls were pretty much identical to games like IoT.

Please dont move goalposts.



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Faxanadu on 21 June 2014
BasilZero said:
Faxanadu said:

What does a horrible abomination that are the 3D Zeldas have to do with anything? They added broken gameplay mechanics like jumping in a 3D world to Zelda when they reinvented / destroyed the series by moving into 3D, totally changing the gameplay. Those broken gameply mechanics didnt exist in the tight to control 2D Zelda universe, where the controls were pretty much identical to games like IoT.

Please dont move goalposts.


I dont do goal posts - I'm not a rabbid fan who squabbles about sales numbers, make defensive posts for their favorite company and worship about corporate suits as if they are an idol.

The only Zelda game that was remotely a RPG was Zelda II on the NES.

If you want a clearer explanation then read this: http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/does-nintendo-actually-believe-zelda-is-an-rpg/

I'm not sure what your wikipedia is , but the only zelda game that is on the english wiki that is stated as a RPG is Zelda II like I mentioned earlier in this post.

But like I said, if you want to believe Zelda is a RPG that is the same as games like Kingdom Hearts, Soul Blazer Trilogy, Mana series - you have the freedom to do so - just that your wrong because - just having RPG elements such as upgradeable health does not make it an RPG.

 

I am not saying Zelda is an RPG, I am saying it is an Action Adventure. I am also saying that Allundra, IoT, Terranigma, SoM are all Action Adventures, all with some RPG elements.



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