I said games that don't exist on other consoles. Games like Metroid and Star Fox adventures, Smash Bros and Perfect Dark exist on other consoles. Games like Splatoon, Mario Kart, Pokemon, NSMB, Wii Play U, NintendoLand, Wario Ware, Art Academy and Endless Ocean aren't available on other consoles, or they are but are just much more popular on Nintendo consoles.

If those games aren't in themselves vastly different to you, do you need me to explain how they are vastly different? It should be pretty obvious.

The WiiU has them, but not enough of them, and needs system sellers to help them gain traction. Sure they ain't helping for now but it's by releasing more of them, newer ones and better ones that Nintendo will win, not by releasing the same ones over and over again (NSMB for example).

PS4 and X1 are doing better because they are front-loaded and cater to another market. The games aren't really out yet, WD showed that gamers were starved. They are sold by the expectations that they will have a strong library of 1st and 3rd party games. The U doesn't have that trust or luxury. The games need to sell the system over time, slowly but surely.

I'm talking about that type of game, games that appeal to the people playing on the "HD twins". Why do I feel like I always have to spell everything out for you.

You still don't see the difference between games like Wii Party U, splatoon, Captain toad and then Perfect Dark, Metroid Prime, COD, Assassin's Creed?

That's not what I said, hey? And you're notorious for following conversations? I think not.

It is not wrong, games like Metroid were bought by the same people as those who bought Castlevania, Metroid, Final Fantasy, most users who then migrated to the Playstation as the proper successor to the SNES. We know that by virtue of the games that released on the Playstation. They follow-up on that same kind of content and audience.

The only fact that we know is that Nintendo beat the Playstation (not Sega, but Sony's playstation) with two main consoles: the DS (and 3DS) and the Wii. What is there in common with those two consoles? I explained it, it's the games. Your argument on differentiating themselves has nothing to do with the final goal, which is to release games which are appealing and fun, which are new and can attract a market. The U hasn't achieved that because the volume of such games is not enough. I feel like I keep repeating myself. Sure a few games are out but it's not enough to sell the U.

There are other racers out there, what kind of crap argument is that Oni. Back when Mario Kart Wii came out there were also other kart racers out there but they couldn't hold a candle to MK's sales.

As for Smash, Sony's Smash clone can't hold a candle to Nintendo's Smash title. The series is on track to sell 10m if the other entries are any indicator. PASBR sold what 1m?  Who cares about it that's a horrible argument. Sure Smash alone is not enough, I agree with you. That doesn't change the fact that it is one more needed game in a mosaic that needs to be produced in order for Nintendo to replicate the DS success.

Until you see that picture you will never understand my argument.

A mosaic of games ... to replicate ... the DS success. Every other thing I said in this thread holds on that simple concept and theory of Nintendo's (yet unfulfilled) strategy.

It has sold more units worldwide than the XB1 for the last 3 weeks! I would say that if it holds up until the holidays it may end up in a better position than the XB1 at least! which is pretty surprising (and it would make sense in a way, Nintendo differenciate themselves with their IPs and great exclusives that every gamers worth their salt knows about Ms does not have the same relevance a lot of their attraction in the 360s days was due to the multi-platform titles being better on it than on PS3).

So there is a race for the second spot! Honestly, I think the XB1 will eventually sell more than the Wii U again, but the U may pull ahead whenever a Zelda or some other big title come out... I see myself getting one at some point!

I think you're way too cocky for something that hasn't happened yet. I'm not saying Nintendo will pull it off, I'm saying that at least the strategy is sound, so long as they CAN pull it off.

How can I be wrong if I'm not predicting that they will pull it off but simply saying that I hope they do.

Again, MK did a lot for the N64 but not enough. Much like MK did a lot for the Wii but alone it would not be enough. That's why I'm talking about a mosaic.

As for Final Fantasy, I'm not talking about genres, I'm talking about the people that buy them. They are the same and the reason we know that is because of the games that were being bought when Metroid and Zelda were big: Mega Man, Castlevania, Final Fantasy, irrespective of genre. Those games were pursued by gamers on the PS and so Metroid is now not enough to attract the new (DS/Wii) crowd. It is good as a piece of a mosaic (like X and Golden Sun are nice as part of a larger mosaic), but alone they do little for the console. That's why the N64 and cube did so poorly. They didn't have the games that made the mosaic, like the DS and Wii had.

MK8 has come out about 2 years after WiiU debut and has still not moved the sales dial much.  We are talking abut a 2 year console that has barely racked up over 6 million is sales.  XBox One has been out barely 7 months and siitting with significantly more sales than the WiiU had at the same time frame. Then peeple will say that Titanfall failed to do the same however it had alot less room to play with here when you consider the One was only months old.  Even against what people claim are poor XBox One sales, the WiiU is in far far worse shape.  XBox one still has quite a few blockbuster games to look forward to over the next couple of years which will drive further sales amongst the FPS loyalist (Halo Gears etc).  WiiU on the other hand has already drawn a couple of its wildcards and failed, and is running out of time.  The big problem here is that WiiU's casual gamer base (many young people,- kids etc) have shifted to Ipad, tablets and touch phone games....In droves. 

@bold. I don't remember saying the opposite. Right, the N64 didn't have the games, the GC sold poorly because it got streamrolled. You and I agree.

But I do know that the people who bought metroid also bought Zelda and Castlevania. How do I know that, here is how.

When a video game console is the leader in the industry, the video games bought generally follow a trend. For example, in the time of the PS Iand PS2, it seemed like the majority of high-profile games were japanese. Games like Ridge Racer, Tekken, Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear. Most people who bought one game in that genre would receive more games because the market would congregate to cater to itself.

The same happened in gen7, where shooters and gritty games were the norm. Games like Uncharted were more gritty than games like Jak and Daxter, and fit better with the better selling games of the gen such as Gears, Cod, AC, etc etc.

That is why I'm arguing, reasonably, that the people who bought Nintendo games back in the day also bought games that catered to a similar audience. So a shooter like megaman would be also bought by people who liked Metroid, a sword game like Zelda would also be bought by a person who bought Final Fantasy. The market congregates to satisfy what is hot. However within a same market there could be two main trends, where on the NES you had more action shooter type games (Megaman,  Metroid, Contra, Ikari Warriors, etc) and then you had family friendly games (like Mario, Clu clu land, Goonies, Mickey Mouse's Magical Kingdom). So my argument right now is that the N64 was focused on the former (action, dark) while the Wii focused on the latter (family, happy) and expanded on it.

I personally believe that nowadays games like Megaman and Metroid are no longer part of the second group by virtue of the evolution of dark and gritty (the level has expanded and metroid is now mild in that range), however I still believe that it is per the older scale less able to catch a wide audience than the Wii/DS type library is able to target.

And I think this isn't something that needs proof but that makes sense in light of the history of video games and the types of games that sold on the SNES and migrated to make the Playstation popular.

I'm honestly happy chatting with you, so agree disagree is cool by me either way.

I think you might be confusing the numbers I brought up for Metroid, Castlevania, Megaman with Playstation era sales figures. The numbers I was referring to were SNES era numbers.

For example, in the SNES era, Super Metroid sold as follows and Final Fantasy IV sold as follows:

But honestly these number's don't mean much because at the same time we have:

A lot of which sold similarly to the games in the above section. Really the SNES had games for both audiences (family-friendly and more teen type games), but we know that the teen type games went to be played on the playstation, while Nintendo continued to try to cater to the teen audience but wasn't able to keep the hold.

The answer to your question about the U is that, even if the casual boom is over, it doesn't mean that there isn't demand for casual games, or at least for games that appeal to children. The 3DS is weaker than the DS but it's still strong, and I think it supports that idea. So though the casual craze is over, the U could still find a DS-type success in its own way by offering games that made the DS successful.

I personally don't think Nintendo will pull it off, but MK8 is definitely a giant leap in the right direction.

I feel like we're not talking about the same thing, because I said in my post that the numbers meant little so we actually agree. I'm not sure you're understanding me.

My point was that the games that became big games on the Playstation were also big games on the SNES, and that they were very similar to a certain type of Nintendo games which made up the larger part of the N64 library. You are right the PS beat the N64 due to a better price and more games. Since that defeat that market is no longer viable for Nintendo.

The DS type games idea I'm pushing now constitutes casual games (which you mention people are playing on their smartphones), as well as now teen games (which evolved on the PS console to now nitty gritty). So the DS library of fun + teen games is now complementary to the PS/Xbox library, they don't directly compete very strongly (due to what was popular on the PS now evolved to a new type of game).

Sometimes I just wish we could talk to each other verbally because typing ideas is often difficult.