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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why Mario Kart 8 didn't save the WiiU

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oniyide on 20 June 2014
padib said:
RolStoppable said:

This entire discussion started because I said that the Wii U is a failure and explained why it was always doomed to be a failure. Instead of nitpicking on every single thing I've said, maybe we should turn the whole thing around and make you answer why the Wii U is still not doomed to be a failure. Since I am generous, we will define Wii U success as beating lifetime figures of the GameCube.

Since this post of mine right here shall not look like a cop-out, I will answer your above quote in full. However, I will not continue discussing those points any further, because I know that they will lead to further subpoints.

The Wii didn't reach its full sales potential outside of Japan either. It could have easily surpassed the PS2 lifetime totals, provided third parties supported it like the PS2.

The 3DS is not on track to sell anywhere close to 33m units lifetime in Japan. Even 25m already looks like a huge stretch, since it has slowed down dramatically this year.

The psychological barrier exists for both, the N64 and GC. I have said that the upper limit that is tolerated is the SNES layout and both systems have gone beyond that; once beyond, the effect it has on sales is identical, i.e. no purchase. The reason for lower GC sales is that the people for whom such a controller does not pose a psychological barrier had fewer reasons to own a GC than the N64 before it. Since Nintendo at the time was in direct competition with companies like Sony, Sega and Microsoft, their consoles could often be substituted for a competitor's product. While Sega was almost negligible in the fifth and sixth generation, Microsoft found success in at least one region: America. Hence why gen over gen Nintendo's sales were most negatively affected in America. The N64 had already spectacularly lost to the PS1 in Japan, so there wasn't much to lose for the GC anymore.

Handhelds are proportionally more popular in Japan than anywhere else in the world and like I already previously mentioned, Japan sees more 3DS retail releases than any other country in the world. The old rule that software drives hardware sales.

The lack of ability to connect the dots wasn't specific to any particular topic, but a general observation. Granted, it's possible that I and all those other people suffer from the same inabilities when it comes to logical thinking, but I'd say that's very improbable.

That is a fair request.

Why the U is still not doomed to failure, and can beat the cube in sales

Nintendo 1st party is not competing with Sony and MS with the U

Despite the article raised earlier about Nintendo pandering to 3rd parties as part of their console HW design strategy, the fact remains true that Nintendo is in an ocean to themselves in the content they are releasing. For that simple reason, irrespective of the number of analog sticks on the U's gamepad, the games should sell themselves, per the old  trustworthy rule that "games sell hardware". Given the lack of competition and Nintendo's momentum from the Wii, albeit stiffled by the U's awkward launch marketing, the U is still on track to shine in the market it is currently guarding.

The U's strategy mimics the DS/3DS strategy

Though true that the psychological barrier exists and that the U can't equally enjoy the breakthrough aura that the Wii enjoyed, the U's gamepad was based on the design of another very successful platform, the DS/3DS. The gamepad, making exception of the analog sticks and trigger buttons, is in essence a replica of the DS/3DS design. Though the two "screens" aren't tethered in this case, very similar applications are still very well portable.

Since the DS/3DS were able to succeed due to the quality of the games released for them, and the Vita though a portable was unable to sell due to the lack of said games, I believe that there is no valid reason for the U to not be able to tap into that success, at least proportionately.

To clarify, I believe that the U may not be able to reach the sales scale of portables due to the fact that often portables are bought per individuals while home consoles are bought per family, I still see the same appeal being transferrable to the U's success.

Conclusion

In conclusion, if Nintendo is able to offer a library that is fun and compelling to consumers, I see no reason why the medium (home or portable) would make any logical difference.


So then why has PS4 already passed it? Why has Xone done better despite being more expensive? IMHO you are putting way too much stock into Ninty titles. There has been no evidence so far to back up what you are saying in this regard. Hell you could say the same in the N64 and GC eras, what happened then?



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oniyide on 20 June 2014

what is being saved? IMHO anything less than 40mil is a flop and i dont see WIi U getting near those numbers



tripenfall on 21 June 2014
oniyide said:
what is being saved? IMHO anything less than 40mil is a flop and i dont see WIi U getting near those numbers


Flop is a strong word for a console that sells 39 million.

Look at the Vita... Sony would love to have a "flop" like that!



DarthMetalliCube on 22 June 2014

What does "save" actually entail? Selling the most units? I think it's pretty clear that Nintendo will never outsell Sony in the home console business. Wii was more of ananomoly, and even it will barely edge out the PS3 despite being home to several sales phenomena and Sony cranking out its biggest console disaster ever. 

But it looks like Wii U should easilly outsell the Xbone, and looks to have a pretty solid library, so what exactly needs saving? You could argue the profitability factor, but I believe Nintendo recently announced that they now receive a profit on Wii U sales (albeit a small one). Mario Kart 8 was never single handedly boost Wii U sales to the top. No game will though. It's just a matter of pushing momentum, and Mario Kart certainly achieved that.



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

Bfriedli on 22 June 2014

What would save it is games like Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Zelda but most important they need a new $299 sku with a 500gb HD and game. And a $199 sku 32gb no game or mabye Nintendo land, just to eliminate the 32gb stock. They really don't get it that if customer goes and buys a 500gb external HD and adds it to Wii U to match PS4 & XB1 HD that now they are spending $375. XB1 best deal 2 months ago had kinect, game and 12 months of XBOX LIVE for $450. XBOX LIVE 12 months cost $60, kinect $100, both consoles comes with game. So the "Value" of Wii U would be $360 for $300 (savings of $60) and XB1 was $620 for $450 (savings of $170). XBOX is at least trying with adjusting there console and realize it. Nintendo doesn't. I hope they do. With great games and a "reasonable price" they will have no trouble and they start getting 3rd party support back.



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oniyide on 22 June 2014
tripenfall said:
oniyide said:
what is being saved? IMHO anything less than 40mil is a flop and i dont see WIi U getting near those numbers


Flop is a strong word for a console that sells 39 million.

Look at the Vita... Sony would love to have a "flop" like that!

so what is then? isnt that around what N64 sold? and that is considered a flop

35mil? i dont think it will reach that



Hyperlynx on 22 June 2014

Sounds like minor nitpicking coming from you. Mario Kart 8 sound a ton despite your complaint. The fact you couldn't find that bundle proves that.



oniyide on 22 June 2014
padib said:
oniyide said:
padib said:
RolStoppable said:

This entire discussion started because I said that the Wii U is a failure and explained why it was always doomed to be a failure. Instead of nitpicking on every single thing I've said, maybe we should turn the whole thing around and make you answer why the Wii U is still not doomed to be a failure. Since I am generous, we will define Wii U success as beating lifetime figures of the GameCube.

Since this post of mine right here shall not look like a cop-out, I will answer your above quote in full. However, I will not continue discussing those points any further, because I know that they will lead to further subpoints.

The Wii didn't reach its full sales potential outside of Japan either. It could have easily surpassed the PS2 lifetime totals, provided third parties supported it like the PS2.

The 3DS is not on track to sell anywhere close to 33m units lifetime in Japan. Even 25m already looks like a huge stretch, since it has slowed down dramatically this year.

The psychological barrier exists for both, the N64 and GC. I have said that the upper limit that is tolerated is the SNES layout and both systems have gone beyond that; once beyond, the effect it has on sales is identical, i.e. no purchase. The reason for lower GC sales is that the people for whom such a controller does not pose a psychological barrier had fewer reasons to own a GC than the N64 before it. Since Nintendo at the time was in direct competition with companies like Sony, Sega and Microsoft, their consoles could often be substituted for a competitor's product. While Sega was almost negligible in the fifth and sixth generation, Microsoft found success in at least one region: America. Hence why gen over gen Nintendo's sales were most negatively affected in America. The N64 had already spectacularly lost to the PS1 in Japan, so there wasn't much to lose for the GC anymore.

Handhelds are proportionally more popular in Japan than anywhere else in the world and like I already previously mentioned, Japan sees more 3DS retail releases than any other country in the world. The old rule that software drives hardware sales.

The lack of ability to connect the dots wasn't specific to any particular topic, but a general observation. Granted, it's possible that I and all those other people suffer from the same inabilities when it comes to logical thinking, but I'd say that's very improbable.

That is a fair request.

Why the U is still not doomed to failure, and can beat the cube in sales

Nintendo 1st party is not competing with Sony and MS with the U

Despite the article raised earlier about Nintendo pandering to 3rd parties as part of their console HW design strategy, the fact remains true that Nintendo is in an ocean to themselves in the content they are releasing. For that simple reason, irrespective of the number of analog sticks on the U's gamepad, the games should sell themselves, per the old  trustworthy rule that "games sell hardware". Given the lack of competition and Nintendo's momentum from the Wii, albeit stiffled by the U's awkward launch marketing, the U is still on track to shine in the market it is currently guarding.

The U's strategy mimics the DS/3DS strategy

Though true that the psychological barrier exists and that the U can't equally enjoy the breakthrough aura that the Wii enjoyed, the U's gamepad was based on the design of another very successful platform, the DS/3DS. The gamepad, making exception of the analog sticks and trigger buttons, is in essence a replica of the DS/3DS design. Though the two "screens" aren't tethered in this case, very similar applications are still very well portable.

Since the DS/3DS were able to succeed due to the quality of the games released for them, and the Vita though a portable was unable to sell due to the lack of said games, I believe that there is no valid reason for the U to not be able to tap into that success, at least proportionately.

To clarify, I believe that the U may not be able to reach the sales scale of portables due to the fact that often portables are bought per individuals while home consoles are bought per family, I still see the same appeal being transferrable to the U's success.

Conclusion

In conclusion, if Nintendo is able to offer a library that is fun and compelling to consumers, I see no reason why the medium (home or portable) would make any logical difference.


So then why has PS4 already passed it? Why has Xone done better despite being more expensive? IMHO you are putting way too much stock into Ninty titles. There has been no evidence so far to back up what you are saying in this regard. Hell you could say the same in the N64 and GC eras, what happened then?

I'm not talking about an N64/cube-type library. I'm talking about a DS/3DS/Wii type library. I made it abundantly clear in the para you bolded that I'm not talking about games that can be played on other consoles, but a vastly different offering, one in which Nintendo has no competition.

e.g. a steady flow of quality, fun games.


no you didnt, you said Nintendo games. What does cube type library even mean? What does WIi type library mean? Wii U has gotten a combo of both types and its still doing bad.  @bolded, break it down for me. What do you mean VASTLY different? didnt N64 and Cube have vastly different games than the competition? As did Wii Ds and 3ds does? Doesnt the WIi U? If the Wii U does why is it still doing bad? When you mean vastly different are you talking WiiWhatever type games and shovelware? cause Wii U has that and it aint helping

And you didnt even answer my question as to why PS4 and xone are doing better. Or are you trying to say their libraries are similar to WIi U but is just a better product?



fatslob-:O on 22 June 2014

Let's be honest with ourselves ... Did anyone actually thought that the WII U would turn out to doing decently once mario kart 8 arrived ? If anything a fair number of Nintendo fans had thought it was going to end up like the vita even before mario kart 8 released.

Once an image is set in stone for a year it's hard to erase it and the WII U has already had it's path carved out before mario kart 8 could come to have any sort of meaningful impact for it.



tripenfall on 22 June 2014
oniyide said:
tripenfall said:
oniyide said:
what is being saved? IMHO anything less than 40mil is a flop and i dont see WIi U getting near those numbers


Flop is a strong word for a console that sells 39 million.

Look at the Vita... Sony would love to have a "flop" like that!

so what is then? isnt that around what N64 sold? and that is considered a flop

35mil? i dont think it will reach that


N64 sold 32.9 million and while that is not anything like other consoles can you really consider it a flop?

I think right now if you offered Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony (Vita) that figure for lifetime sales they would probably take it....