$75 in parts doesn't take into account other expenses before a product makes its way to a store shelf. How overly simplistic.

Not only would it put MS in the red, dropping the kinect X1 to $399 globally is a sign of weakness and a very early price cut. This way, it isn't a price cut but more of a lower end sku introduction.

Except for the fact that the Kinect is included in the primary sku package (till june 9th). Those after manufacture expenses are introduced after the whole package is assembled. So its a perfectly reasonable estimation. Not to mention the Kinect would only get those expenses applied to if it was being sold seperatly.

Of all the things that MS has done to put Xbox in the red, dropping the Kinect is honestly the lesser of said evils.  While I agree that the price cut might be seen as a sign of weakness, any of the MS's 180's including the additional SKU could be construed as weakness as well. Dropping the price, can be argued as listening to consumers as well.

However, this way MS pretty much confirms that the Kinect is not essential, and they have yet to provide it much software to give it much standalone value.

Worse yet, now the X1 only really has media features over the PS4, most of which can easily be made up with software. Last gen PS3 barely beat 360 WW because of Japan, and managed to top 360 in ltd in the US for a couple of weeks cause of GTA or something. Thats with selling at 300+ loss until manfacturing costs dropped and a loss most of its life.

X1 doesn't have Japan, and if it can't take a measly 75$ loss until manufacturing costs drop, how are they even trying to catch up in the US?

The only reason I have yet to and will never blow this out of proportion because I realized the futility of the endeavor. Even if I was able to convince the entire site of my opinion, there would be a greater chance of the XB1 being discounted then the Kinectless SKU being replaced with a 399 Kinect Bundled XB1(At least until price cut, by then the damage will be done)

However, the contrary argument that its a purely good thing is not sufficent enough for me to reconsider.

And I do disagree with the claim that A) the only people that would disagree with it have already purchased XB1's (I have not yet purchased the system) and B)the only people that would disagree with it want the console to fail.

When DJEVOLVE claimed that MS would drop the SKU's price to 399 before making the Kinect Optional, I agreed with him, because that's not only competing on price, but value as well. Since, they decided to take the easier route, my belief that MS isn't willing to invest as much in the platform and that the XB fanbase doesn't hold Xbox at the same scruntity that Sony or Nintendo is held at are both reconfirmed.

People are against it because they want it to be supported better this gen unlike last gen. They feel like if everyone has one, more developers will support it and better games will come out.

That being said, I disagree with forcing people to pay extra for something they dont value and therefore am all for the Kinectless SKU. A good product will be accepted by the community and does not need to be forced.

The bolded part is two sided, I would not bet that the PS4 camera will disapear, especially since I think Sony intend to use it along their VR project Morpheus.

As for move, it mostly lives on in the DS4 controller, simply under a different shape, will again be used in conjunction with project Morpheus.

We have not seen any equivalent on MSes side, only empty promises of a "killer app" that would validate the inclusion of Kinect (along side the HDMI in) I think Kinect Sports Rivals was supposed to be "it", so there is no telling what MS will do with Kinect in the future, there is no apparent project beyond the original "vision", if nobody buys it, there is no telling what will happen of Kinect on the xb1, no matter how interesting the technology is, it's only good for certain type of use (dance, fitness and young kids games) if the people who should be interested in the device don't buy into it, for whatever reason, they will discontinue it... just like Sony will eventually do with any failed product, MS can just afford to do it more and longer.

I agree with the first line of logic and is the only reason I am disappointed with the Kinect removal, but the inclusion of it in every box most certainly hasn't resulted in any great Kinect software yet. And have we even seen anything in the pipeline that would change that? I know Project Spark has admittedly incredible sounding motion cap stuff, but what else is beyond that? It seems developers don't give a crap about Kinect, and as a result maybe MS sees no reason to eat a loss by including it. There's also a negative buzz around Kinect with some hardcore gamers. I think even at $400 with the Kinect, some people would still flock to PS4 because they'd still view Kinect in a negative manner and just want to wait for a cheaper, Kinect-less SKU.

The bottom line really is MS has dropped the ball pretty big in providing something that makes Kinect really a killer app for the mainstream market. As a result most people don't see the point in paying for it.

You are looking at the immediate number of $399 without Kinect and assuming that it is static.  Now that M$ has removed the Kinect, they can drop the price of the Kinectless Sku even further with pack ins and retailer promotions.  Because there was a significant portion of buyers that had no interest in the Kinect, dropping the price to $399 for the Kinect included XB1 didn't make that system more appealing.  If they don't like it or want it, the price wasn't the problem for them.  For those people, they will look for one of those deals on the Kinectless Sku and make the purchase.  Even though we all know that M$'s claim that they did this to provide consumers with more choices was PR speak, that doesn't change the fact that it was essentially true for a portion of its potential buyers.  Some people just didn't want Kinect and wouldn't buy a sku with it in there. 

They pretty much had to drop it. They need the extra power and even with the extra 10% there is no guarantee they will be able to achieve parity. I don't know why people keep insisting that this manufacturers price cut to $399 makes it a threat. Recent history says otherwise. The current market value of Xb1 with a kinect is $330 in the US. If retailers can't sell the console for $330 with a year of XBL gold and with Titans Fall then an arbitrary price drop to $399 isn't going to do anything. Especially since they just removed their key selling point and sabotaged the future of the kinect. They continually give the impression that they don't have a unified vision. They don't know what they want. It's that uncertainty that makes people uneasy about buying the console.

Xbox360 did fantastic last gen after it came back after the worst hardware fuck up in gaming history. They had ps3 beat for the longest time because they had unified vision. Just like ps2 the gen before it and the wii during that gen. They had laser focus on their vision and they delivered it with accuracy. Vision alone isn't enough. You must also have some great games too. 360 had the Halo franchise and Gears oF War and they both revitalized and excited the industry. Everything else was utterly forgettable but those two franchises were enough. The reason why Ps3 came back and eventually beat 360 last gen was because they too had strong vision. Unfortunately their hardware took them a long time to bring out the great games they needed. It took them awhile but Naughty Dog pretty much saved ps3 from third place. Wii absolutely dominated because they had laser focus on family gaming that utilized motion controls. Everyone ate that shit up because it was new and they knew what they were going to be investing in. People have no idea what they investing in with Xb1 they are always all over the place. They seem bipolar and it doesn't help that they restructure and get new management every few months.

WiiU is failing for the same reason Xb1 is failing. No clear vision is being expressed to consumers. The new controller tho awesome imo doesn't send a clear message. Before it was all about family oriented gaming with motion controls. Now it's like they are pulling into two different directions at once. It doesn't help that their games are abysmal atm and what awesome games they do come out with seem to only come to 3ds. If Xb1 is going to succeed then they need a clear vision, they need to work out all the programming problems that are keeping games at lower quality with frame rate issues. Finally they need to show some awesome exclusives at E3. I mean real exclusives too. Not timed exclusives or BS like Titan Fall that comes out on PC as well. Too many people are simply going to go for better quality on PC for the game instead of investing into the console which they now have even less reason to now because they just got rid of the one thing that gave them an edge.

maybe im off base here but it seems to me that you actually believe that Kinect was intergral to Xbone experience PR BS and thats where your frustrations lie?

no all it means is that MS is not willing ot go into the red to fight Sony