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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony's in a 'bag of hurt' because of Blu-ray

No - its was just another round of Sony-style "calculating". They burned ALL money ever made from PS1 and PS2 to put a PS3 into the gamers hands and also give Blu-Ray a head start... Oh what irony...

At least they have learned from this: instead of getting the equivalent of a 2000 bucks PC for 600 bucks (PS3) you'll get now 450 bucks PC for 399... the only downside are the marketing costs to make people believe that "This is for the players" and the PS4 is way north worth...



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disolitude said:

If you really think I am the market "norm" in terms of what people own, buy or like...you are delusional. I would buy a Plasma over LCD any day. Currently I'm rocking a 65 inch 4K TV but will sell it and get a 4K DLP projector once its widely available. I tend to get the best of the best because I have the means and interest in technology.

However unlike some people here I fully know that 95% of the population doesn't give a shit that plasma has deeper blacks and response time, that 144hz gaming on PC's rapes the consoles or that Bluray non compressed quality is slightly better than digital.

The bottom line is that the general population lives in the "good enough" state of mind when buying technology. Even for me who demands the best, bluray and physical media is a a shittier option due to sheer convinience. Digital video distribution today is more than adequate for someone with high end gear in order to enjoy content to the full extent.

You only find blu-ray slightly bettter than streaming? Where do you stream from? I see a massive difference on a 92" 1080p screen, yet even on 65", I assume with a 4K upscaling blu-ray player, the difference should be profound. Nevermind the difference in sound.

Really your first and second paragraph contradict each other.

Or maybe I understood wrong, yes the general population with a small tv or 720p / HD ready variant won't see a big difference. Anyway everytime I give digital a try again I've always come away disappointed.



SvennoJ said:
Zekkyou said:

It's not really surprising when you consider the cost difference. It's like £7.50 - £15 for a single blu-ray movie on amazon or £6.99 for a month of access to Netflix's entire library (a lot of which is still HD, just a compressed equivalent) :p

If HD digital media cost the same amount as a blu-ray movie (like the prices of retail games vs their cost on PSN/XBL), then blu-ray would most likely be an awful lot more popular.

Yet prices of HD digital movies to own are generally higher than blu-ray disks. Renting has always been cheaper. If you're happy with whatever Netflix serves up and don't care about owning a movie, then yes it's the better choice than buying blu-rays obviously.

I should have added what i said was based in a world where streaming didn't exist, so just HD digital media vs blu-ray at the same price. The same as how things currently stand with console games.



Zekkyou said:
SvennoJ said:
Zekkyou said:

It's not really surprising when you consider the cost difference. It's like £7.50 - £15 for a single blu-ray movie on amazon or £6.99 for a month of access to Netflix's entire library (a lot of which is still HD, just a compressed equivalent) :p

If HD digital media cost the same amount as a blu-ray movie (like the prices of retail games vs their cost on PSN/XBL), then blu-ray would most likely be an awful lot more popular.

Yet prices of HD digital movies to own are generally higher than blu-ray disks. Renting has always been cheaper. If you're happy with whatever Netflix serves up and don't care about owning a movie, then yes it's the better choice than buying blu-rays obviously.

I should have added what i said was based in a world where streaming didn't exist, so just HD digital media vs blu-ray at the same price. The same as how things currently stand with console games.

True. And in a reverse situation, I wonder what services like playstation now are going to do to gaming. Sony won't bite it's own hand by streaming ps4 games, but EA might be tempted to launch a Netflix like service. Game ownership could suffer as much as home movie sales, and games don't have the box office to fall back on.



SvennoJ said:

Or maybe I understood wrong, yes the general population with a small tv or 720p / HD ready variant won't see a big difference. Anyway everytime I give digital a try again I've always come away disappointed.

In their earnings waring Sony states that EUROPE sales are declining faster then predicted.

 

BUT - in the biggest economies of europe there is nothing like Netflix. Rental offers on a "watch as much as you can" like Amazon are so bad I can't think of this somebody taking serious.

 

So it's either iTunes making a lots of money, pirated copies or simply an economic downturn where people spend less money.

 

I would guess that it's the last one. In such a situation people are not so picky about actual picture quality...



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SvennoJ said:
Zekkyou said:

I should have added what i said was based in a world where streaming didn't exist, so just HD digital media vs blu-ray at the same price. The same as how things currently stand with console games.

True. And in a reverse situation, I wonder what services like playstation now are going to do to gaming. Sony won't bite it's own hand by streaming ps4 games, but EA might be tempted to launch a Netflix like service. Game ownership could suffer as much as home movie sales, and games don't have the box office to fall back on.

Yep, interesting times ahead. If PSNow is a success we could see a lot of changes/new services start popping up in gaming. For better or for worse, who knows.



mine said:
SvennoJ said:

Or maybe I understood wrong, yes the general population with a small tv or 720p / HD ready variant won't see a big difference. Anyway everytime I give digital a try again I've always come away disappointed.

In their earnings waring Sony states that EUROPE sales are declining faster then predicted.

 

BUT - in the biggest economies of europe there is nothing like Netflix. Rental offers on a "watch as much as you can" like Amazon are so bad I can't think of this somebody taking serious.

 

So it's either iTunes making a lots of money, pirated copies or simply an economic downturn where people spend less money.

 

I would guess that it's the last one. In such a situation people are not so picky about actual picture quality...

Apparently blu-ray is only doing well in Germany, responsible for about 40% of the sales in western europe.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/germany-pass-uk-become-europes-650591
They contribute the difference to the availability of Netflix and VOD. UK has Netflix, Germany not yet.

Maybe better internet service also helps drive Netflix and VOD in Europe. UK also already has Netflix 4K and Super HD (8mbps 1080p) TVs may be smaller too on average in Europe, less of a noticeable difference? I dunno, maybe Europeans are just cheap.



The sad thing is the people hurt most buy the 'HD DVD /Blu ray War' were not the big guys, but the smaller companies that actually made the disk and movies. Some waited to upgrade, some went with HD DVD as they could fairly easily upgrade their equipment, while Blu-ray required a whole extra very expensive upgrade. There sales started to stall because of the, completely unnecessary, format war.

Sony tried really hard to corner the market, and it worked, they won the 'blu-ray war', but ultimately they sped up the loss to digital distribution. The people and companies that made the DVD's (and then blu-rays) are getting lost in this too.

Again, consumers lose with companies act only for their own self interest.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Shadow1980 said:

Wasn't physical media supposed to be dead already? Like, right now? At least according to the digital-only evangelists it was. "Physical media will be dead in five years," they said... five years ago. All the printing presses and all the disc manufacturing plants were supposed to have been shut down by now. Yet here they are. While total disc sales are indeed down, all the losses are due to the decline of the waning DVD format. Blu-ray sales are growing. Maybe not as fast as DVD did, but it's growing nonetheless. Based on a DEG report from this past January, the Blu-ray penetration rate is nearly 59% of all U.S. households and about 75% of households that own an HDTV. Hardly niche. Book sales are still strong and show no signs of declining. E-book penetration is still relatively low and adoption rates appear to be slowing, at least for now. And according to at least one survey I saw, preference rates for physical over digital favored print books most of all. Print still accounts for the vast majority of revenue for book companies. Books have been a cultural touchstone for longer than any other format, Gutenberg having invented his printing press over 5-½ centuries ago, and they are going to be the hardest form of physical media to "kill off." Physical game sales are down from several years ago, but that's because of the cyclical nature of the console market, and software sales are going to start increasing this year and at least out until 2016 or 2017. Physical is still by far the most popular delivery system for console games (indies excluded). I'd imagine a digital-only console would fare about as well as the PSP Go. In fact, given that a third of 360s aren't connected, had MS went through with their original plan of an almost-always-online console the Xbox One might not have even broken 3 million in global sales to date, if that. Even the music CD, while nowhere near as popular as it was, is still viable and generates nearly half of the music industry's revenue, and if the mp3 was supposed to kill the CD it's taking its sweet time (and maybe, just maybe, crappy disposable pop is killing music). Hell, even the vinyl record is still around and has started growing again (though it's still niche).

Point being, not everyone has the desire to buy an e-reader or an mp3 player or download all their video games or stream all of their movies. Some people actually like to own a physical, tangible product, not pay for a "license" that can be revoked at any time. Digital upends everything we've come to expect regarding notions of ownership. First off, you own nothing, according to American jurisprudence, anyway. The first-sale doctrine? No longer applies. Say goodbye to the second-hand market or being able to lend or borrow titles. And what of being able to access your content years or decades from now? Say you stream all your TV shows or movies. What happens if your internet craps out on you? You don't get to watch anything until service is restored? Not a problem for physical. What happens if something you like gets pulled due to expired contracts or rights issues or some other reason (which does happen)? You don't get to watch it, perhaps not for months or years or possibly even ever. Period. Not a problem with physical. Or say you have a big collection of digital games. What happens if something happens and you lose everything? Redownload everything, you say? What if this happens after the system is no longer supported, including the shutting down of the servers that supply its digital storefront? You're just shit outta luck, I guess. Once again, not a problem with physical. If my system dies, my discs & cartridges don't die with it, and they're not dependent on some online service that may get pulled at any time. I just track down a replacement console and that's that. Unlike digital, which when removed from circulation is forever gone with no means to obtain it, even a physical good that goes out of production can still be bought second-hand. In addition to ownership and accessibility issues, there's quality issues. Most physical product is simply superior in quality in nearly every conceivable way to its digital counterpart. A Blu-ray viewed on a 1080p TV makes your typical Netflix movie look like shit by comparison. A well-mixed audio CD or record sounds far better than your run-of-the-mill mp3. And of course nothing beats the experience of thumbing through a good old hard-bound book.

Of course, even if all the myriad problems involving ownership of and long-term access to content were non-issues, not everybody could jump on the digital-only bandwagon even if they wanted because it's not an option for tens of millions of households. Something like a third of American households lack broadband access entirely, and many if not most of those that do have it have to deal with sub-standard connection quality and arbitrarily low bandwidth caps. With small hard drive sizes (relative to game file sizes) on consoles possibly requiring gamers to redownload games multiple times as they cycle titles in and out of that limited space, and with HD streaming video being very bandwith-intensive, those caps could be hit rather fast, and when you hit that cap your ISP hits you with an overage charge. And things aren't getting any better. In fact, if net neutrality dies it could make things even worse. Given the sorry state of internet infrastructure in America and probably other countries as well, a digital-only future is probably 30 years or more away from being feasible. Neither the demand nor the necessary infrastructure can support it. Right now it's still only the fantasy of tech geeks who think physical media is "caveman tech" and that "the cloud" is this wonderful magical thing that everybody should love. As for me, I'll still by buying physical media until the day I die, and I suspect that'll still be an option even past 2050.


huza! huza!


as a collector of media myself, my collection has grown slowly but steadily. physical outnumbers digital about 150 to 1 in my collection, with most of the digital copies being offered with physical media.
blu-ray makes up a minority of my collection but still greater than digital.

the issue for me is digital has not reduced the cost vs physical. i can find the dvd i am looking for for 7-14 bucks blu-ray 11-19. downloads are in the 9-19 range or more for seasons.
the other issue is a lot is not available for download drm free yet, until it is no reason for me to purchase through them  these are normally more than the average cost for dvd or blu-ray, but as i am looking to collect i view it as worth the cost



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog

also just to throw out there data caps ... mine was unlimited is now 300gb a month, not enough i had to cancel some of crashplan backups, and degrade my plex streams to avoid going over limt.... and help me if i ever have to re download everything in steam as that is over a TB at this point. using pfsense and subnets i have enacted data caps on different services i run exempting only mine craft and my xbox, even with that i find myself coming close to caps every month.

I would even pay to move to a business plan if i could, offered where i live. no other services with higher data caps, i could move to a much slower connection with 250 gig cap.

when i move next time i will try and make sure the new location has access to business class. this however should not be a requirement. if an unlimited plan will cost more I would pay for it, even if its slower.
right now my speed is about 125Mbits down and 22Mbits up i would be happy with 30down and 30up if unlimited



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog