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Forums - Gaming - Trials Fusion runs at 1080p/60 on PS4, 900p/60 on Xbox One

JoeTheBro on 14 April 2014

Not a big difference between the two and this isn't a game where the graphics really matter. It could be a bad sign for the overall picture, but just as an isolated game it's a non issue in my opinion.



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4k1x3r on 14 April 2014
walsufnir said:

Thanks for telling us that your post relied on nothing.

It took me 5s just by typing "list of games looking better on PS3" to find examples. Even on the top of my head Bioshock, which is the perfect example of what he was talking about. Came out later, looked better. Or LA Noire as it was originally a PS3 exclusive. Anyway.

 

Quote Tree Shortened - Conegamer



walsufnir on 15 April 2014
4k1x3r said:
walsufnir said:


Thanks for telling us that your post relied on nothing.

 

It took me 5s just by typing "list of games looking better on PS3" to find examples. Even on the top of my head Bioshock, which is the perfect example of what he was talking about. Came out later, looked better. Or LA Noire as it was originally a PS3 exclusive. Anyway.


I never said there were no games which looked better on PS3. Go back and read what was stated. Hint: It also has to do with moneyhatting...



S.T.A.G.E. on 15 April 2014
JoeTheBro said:

Not a big difference between the two and this isn't a game where the graphics really matter. It could be a bad sign for the overall picture, but just as an isolated game it's a non issue in my opinion.

This is what I am saying. Right now isn't really the thing to worry about. If there are issues now especially with this game (which isnt that bad at all) it will get worse with games that are 10x more demanding coming out next year.



RazorDragon on 15 April 2014
Arkaign said:
Yep, DRAM is sourced from the cheapest sources, and the price is cheapest for what is in mass production at the time. DDR3 will go up $/GB as DDR4 ramps up in consumer/business PCs and notebooks, as well as servers.

If DDR3 remained the standard, but underwent a new die process, then it would get even cheaper.

If Microsoft built their own fab facility for making DDR3, and sold the excess (perhaps buy out a cobwebbed facility from a bankrupt company), they could lower their costs there. It could actually be a brilliant move if done right. Sell it cheap under the Microsoft brand for PCs/Macs, as there will be demand for DDR3 for years to come, and use the cheap BoM cost to supply XB1 consoles.

However, that is exceedingly unlikely, so what will happen is MS will just have to pay market value for DDR3. And market value will go up as supply goes down.

From a DRAM manufacturer's perspective, when they re-tool to produce new memory standards, they need that new line to run at 100% capacity and to have an efficient sell-through to OEMs. Their life-blood is deals with Dell, HP, Apple, etc. As they have limited space and human resources, it makes little sense to continue producing parts that are not in demand by the major OEMs. And general PC volume absolutely dwarfs all consoles combined. An average PC/notebook these days has at least 4GB, average phones/tablets have 1-2GB, and these items sell by the BILLIONS yearly in totality. The PC parts market in contrast is quite tiny (selling ram OTC and online through Micro Center, Newegg, Fry's, Best Buy, etc). Upwards of 95% of PCs never even see a RAM upgrade due to user indifference, lack of budget, or otherwise (early failure, replaced with new machine and junked, etc).

I got a look at the BoM cost of the Xbox One, and the initial cost for their 8GB DDR3 was $60. If past trends continue (literally every generational change in memory standards has gone through this), that price will slowly inflate, or at best rise only moderately.

This could potentially happen to Sony with the GDDR5 as well, but that's certainly a good ways past the EOL of DDR3 as a mass-market DRAM standard. In all probability, GDDR5 will continue to be produced for at least 4 more years in volume.

HOWEVER :

What makes about 10 million times more sense than trying to source outdated DDR3 memory for the Xbox One, is a new revision that simply runs on DDR4. Trust me, they'll do that before they suffer rising DDR3 prices from constricted supply (basically every DDR3 fab is going to be converted to DDR4 for volume).

It should be a dawdle to accomplish, and they can match the bandwidth/latency to a fine enough degree that it will be imperceptible to the end user. It will be in the first revision of the console I would guess (Xbox One Slim, whatever). We are in x86 territory now, so it's not reinventing the wheel so long as you engineer it properly.


Well, PS3 uses XDR/GDDR3 Ram and 360 GDDR3, both consoles went through price cuts, I'm not sure if memory prices increased over time as much as you're saying that would be possible, specially because other than these two consoles, I'm not sure which other machine would be using those outdated memory standards. Both consoles certainly didn't change GDDR3 to GDDR5 over time to reduce costs, so what you're saying isn't being based on facts, only assumptions.



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Arkaign on 15 April 2014
RazorDragon said:
Arkaign said:
Yep, DRAM is sourced from the cheapest sources, and the price is cheapest for what is in mass production at the time. DDR3 will go up $/GB as DDR4 ramps up in consumer/business PCs and notebooks, as well as servers.

If DDR3 remained the standard, but underwent a new die process, then it would get even cheaper.

If Microsoft built their own fab facility for making DDR3, and sold the excess (perhaps buy out a cobwebbed facility from a bankrupt company), they could lower their costs there. It could actually be a brilliant move if done right. Sell it cheap under the Microsoft brand for PCs/Macs, as there will be demand for DDR3 for years to come, and use the cheap BoM cost to supply XB1 consoles.

However, that is exceedingly unlikely, so what will happen is MS will just have to pay market value for DDR3. And market value will go up as supply goes down.

From a DRAM manufacturer's perspective, when they re-tool to produce new memory standards, they need that new line to run at 100% capacity and to have an efficient sell-through to OEMs. Their life-blood is deals with Dell, HP, Apple, etc. As they have limited space and human resources, it makes little sense to continue producing parts that are not in demand by the major OEMs. And general PC volume absolutely dwarfs all consoles combined. An average PC/notebook these days has at least 4GB, average phones/tablets have 1-2GB, and these items sell by the BILLIONS yearly in totality. The PC parts market in contrast is quite tiny (selling ram OTC and online through Micro Center, Newegg, Fry's, Best Buy, etc). Upwards of 95% of PCs never even see a RAM upgrade due to user indifference, lack of budget, or otherwise (early failure, replaced with new machine and junked, etc).

I got a look at the BoM cost of the Xbox One, and the initial cost for their 8GB DDR3 was $60. If past trends continue (literally every generational change in memory standards has gone through this), that price will slowly inflate, or at best rise only moderately.

This could potentially happen to Sony with the GDDR5 as well, but that's certainly a good ways past the EOL of DDR3 as a mass-market DRAM standard. In all probability, GDDR5 will continue to be produced for at least 4 more years in volume.

HOWEVER :

What makes about 10 million times more sense than trying to source outdated DDR3 memory for the Xbox One, is a new revision that simply runs on DDR4. Trust me, they'll do that before they suffer rising DDR3 prices from constricted supply (basically every DDR3 fab is going to be converted to DDR4 for volume).

It should be a dawdle to accomplish, and they can match the bandwidth/latency to a fine enough degree that it will be imperceptible to the end user. It will be in the first revision of the console I would guess (Xbox One Slim, whatever). We are in x86 territory now, so it's not reinventing the wheel so long as you engineer it properly.


Well, PS3 uses XDR/GDDR3 Ram and 360 GDDR3, both consoles went through price cuts, I'm not sure if memory prices increased over time as much as you're saying that would be possible, specially because other than these two consoles, I'm not sure which other machine would be using those outdated memory standards. Both consoles certainly didn't change GDDR3 to GDDR5 over time to reduce costs, so what you're saying isn't being based on facts, only assumptions.

The last gen was the best case for an older memory standard, as all three consoles combined to use the GDDR3 chips (and Sony had their own facilities for the RDRAM). This vastly increased the volume demand to keep GDDR3 in production.

The price drops for the consoles came from the massive number of revisions and die shrinks (look them up), all focused on simplication and consolidation. Components were combined or even eliminated altogether.

This time around only Microsoft is using DDR3 of that density (WiiU uses a lower-density form of DDR3 at 1/4 the size).

It's not assumptions, but observations based upon what now number in the dozens of process tech generations. The history of what I'm describing goes back to the 70s (or portions of FIVE decades).

The rules of economics and scale aren't going to get broken because someone thinks that manufacturing an obsolete semiconductor process suddenly becomes less expensive when volume moves to a new standard.



JakNBlak1993 on 15 April 2014

I'm cool with that son! The game will be running ice cold smooth and that's all that matters to the Jak!



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crissindahouse on 15 April 2014

Could be the most successful thread of this year behind the usual "Nation" threads. Respect, would be also cool if at least 5 people would have shown so much interest in this game before we heard about the resolution.



Squeezol on 15 April 2014
poklane said:
With all respect, but when games like Trials don't run 1080p/60FPS, it's time to worry.

Just what I thought..



Sal.Paradise on 15 April 2014

Oh, Trials is on PS now. Cool.