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Forums - Sales - Wii is the Lowest Selling #1 Console in Japan Ever.*

binary solo said:

But Wii won't hold that lowest selling #1 console for long, because whichever console wins gen 8 in Japan won't reach Wii, and probably won't even crack 10 million units.

This. I'd be highly surprised if the PS4 managed to beat the Wii over there, even if it surpasses it globally.



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Zappykins said:
nitekrawler1285 said:
Ka-pi96 said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

I can't see PS4 surpassing other lead consoles cause I'm firmly in the stance that there will be less and less games for it. HD development in the 7th gen saw all of the major Japanese firms development slow to a crawl. Some such as Atlus are just now about to release PS3 tittles.With the increase in processing power I can't help but see it exacerbate the situation.


Atlus taking their time is nothing new though. The gap between Persona 2 and 3 was 6 years, the same as the gap between 4 and 5 will be...

If anything there should be more Japanese games this gen, the PS4 is a lot easier to develop for and a few big titles have already gone cross gen, just like big western games, showing there is interest in developing for PS4.

I don't think PS4 being easier to develop for is gonna help. We have already seen plenty of delays for many titles irrespective of how easy it is to develop for.  Watch Dogs, Drive Club, Infamous,  in particular Deep Down was delayed just to make it look more like a PS4 game. If a larger Japanese publisher like Capcom doesn't have the resources to take advantage of that processing power in a timely manner(or even Sony 1st party who was involved in making the hardware) I have even less faith in the smaller Japanese publishers to be able to do so quickly and easily.  I see PS4 getting more exclusives than PS3 but possibly even less titles overall games than PS3 in Japan.   

Like it or not Every generation has seen increased costs and increased time spent per title.   PS4 being "easier" to develop for wont buck that trend. It's hardware will exacerbate it.  Interest in development doesn't equal more titles. If Japanese devs were truly interested we would see more Japanese games on PS4. As of yet that doesn't really seem to be the case.  Looking at the release schedule for PS4 in Japan it seems it may be that way for quite some time. 

I think you make some great points.  The 'Easier to develop for' might be more buzzwords and compaiting it to the PS3.  Some developers I know here were really unhappy with the PS3 documentation they got with the dev kits.  Almost like a little palmplet with either broken impossible to follow English or only in Japanese.  And they were working for Sony.

I'm pretty sure it is just marketing speak to be honest. If it were more than that then we would have more PS4 games period. I could just be a skeptical hardass cause I bought a PS3 when they first announced TLG, or maybe it's cause I thought their portable would get more support based on their PR about how many titles they had in development but either way I'm tired of PR and will await the actual titles from now on.    

Being better than the trainwreck of the PS3's initial dev kits is good.  Even after people came to grasp with PS3 development 3-4 years in title development was still long and expensive. Even in cases where PS3 was lead version.    



OmegaRed421 said:
fauzman said:
Well I find it interesting that the wii has stopped selling whereas the ps3 is still selling a reasonable amount. The amount of ps3s sold will keep on growing bigger so the gap will continue to lessen. I am not sure though if the ps3 will be able to overtake the wii.


The Wii has stopped selling because Nintendo discontinued production of them so they are pretty much gone. The only ones left are from US. I think this is smart of Nintendo because they don't want Wii sales to take away from their WiiU sales which need all the help they can get. I thought the PS3 would canabalize sales of the PS4 more than they have with big IPs being on both. Time will tell I guess as inital demand is finnaly met.

On a side note I hope the M$ can finnaly find some ground in Japan. All going to rely on their JPN titles they produce I guess. This holiday will be interesting between the Big 3 with all being out in Japan by September and the games that will be out.

Yes and no. Discontinuing production is either a good thing or a bad thing depending. If you look at the DS to 3Ds transition, sales of the DS have drastically slowed and most people have upgraded to the 3DS. However, you look at the ps2 which had a very long shelf life and had tonnes of sales after the ps3 released and you wonder if maybe nintendo should have tried a bit more with the wii to get better sales. I expect the ps3 with its blueray and large catalogue of games to continue selling well after the ps4 has established itself which provides an additional revenue stream. 

I doubt MS will succeed in Japan. They tried harder in the x360 gen and failed. I really dont see anything unless they get an exclusive FF or Monster Hunter or some such that will change gamers minds. 



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nitekrawler1285 said:

I'm pretty sure it is just marketing speak to be honest. If it were more than that then we would have more PS4 games period. I could just be a skeptical hardass cause I bought a PS3 when they first announced TLG, or maybe it's cause I thought their portable would get more support based on their PR about how many titles they had in development but either way I'm tired of PR and will await the actual titles from now on.    

Being better than the trainwreck of the PS3's initial dev kits is good.  Even after people came to grasp with PS3 development 3-4 years in title development was still long and expensive. Even in cases where PS3 was lead version.    


wait... so ur tellin me that the Cell was easier than PC like architecture they have now?

Maybe they are just making new engines? Certainly seems more likely. Playstation has always started slowly, at least this time they are filling the gap with indies.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

gigantor21 said:

binary solo said:

 But Wii won't hold that lowest selling #1 console for long, because whichever console wins gen 8 in Japan won't reach Wii, and probably won't even crack 10 million units.

This. I'd be highly surprised if the PS4 managed to beat the Wii over there, even if it surpasses it globally.

I don't see PS4 cracking 100 million either. Console gaming certainly seems to be healthier globally than it is in Japan but smartphones and tablets will still have their effect and cause gen 8 to have far less sales than gen 7, including PS4 not beating out the Wii. But it won't be the lowest selling number 1 console globally because that title will stay with SNES.

A lot of the potential entry level gamers (6-10 year olds) will be begging their parents for smart phones, or rather tablets. Tablets in particular are getting a major boost with kids because a lot of schools are going to tablet based learning for at least part of the time. Imagine a non-gaming parent being told to get a tablet for their kid for school and the kid asking for a console too. The parent will say there's plenty of games on the tablet, and the kid will discover many games they will have a lot of fun with on their tablet. Tablets are not the death of console gaming globally, but that have stopped the growth.



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Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

I'm pretty sure it is just marketing speak to be honest. If it were more than that then we would have more PS4 games period. I could just be a skeptical hardass cause I bought a PS3 when they first announced TLG, or maybe it's cause I thought their portable would get more support based on their PR about how many titles they had in development but either way I'm tired of PR and will await the actual titles from now on.    

Being better than the trainwreck of the PS3's initial dev kits is good.  Even after people came to grasp with PS3 development 3-4 years in title development was still long and expensive. Even in cases where PS3 was lead version.    


wait... so ur tellin me that the Cell was easier than PC like architecture they have now?

Maybe they are just making new engines? Certainly seems more likely. Playstation has always started slowly, at least this time they are filling the gap with indies.


It heavily depends upon what Development Environment they made their games in.  If it's something like Unity or Unreal then it really isn't different at all. If using a custom engine then yes it might be very different.  

So then why are they delaying games?  If it's easier shouldn't they should still be able to make those engines faster? In the case of Sony games in particular they are both sequels. They should have had from the get go a pretty good idea of what they needed the engines to do. The only real answer is that it's not actually any easier. By easier they probably just mean the tools help facilitate their ideas better or the implement their ideal  workflow better. That would make it easier but it doesn't change the massive amounts of work and time that you have to be put in to build and engine irrespective of architecture.  



nitekrawler1285 said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

I'm pretty sure it is just marketing speak to be honest. If it were more than that then we would have more PS4 games period. I could just be a skeptical hardass cause I bought a PS3 when they first announced TLG, or maybe it's cause I thought their portable would get more support based on their PR about how many titles they had in development but either way I'm tired of PR and will await the actual titles from now on.    

Being better than the trainwreck of the PS3's initial dev kits is good.  Even after people came to grasp with PS3 development 3-4 years in title development was still long and expensive. Even in cases where PS3 was lead version.    


wait... so ur tellin me that the Cell was easier than PC like architecture they have now?

Maybe they are just making new engines? Certainly seems more likely. Playstation has always started slowly, at least this time they are filling the gap with indies.


It heavily depends upon what Development Environment they made their games in.  If it's something like Unity or Unreal then it really isn't different at all. If using a custom engine then yes it might be very different.  

So then why are they delaying games?  If it's easier shouldn't they should still be able to make those engines faster? In the case of Sony games in particular they are both sequels. They should have had from the get go a pretty good idea of what they needed the engines to do. The only real answer is that it's not actually any easier. By easier they probably just mean the tools help facilitate their ideas better or the implement their ideal  workflow better. That would make it easier but it doesn't change the massive amounts of work and time that you have to be put in to build and engine irrespective of architecture.  

Well, Nintendo has been delayings game and they have had a year in,  conversely PS4 has been on the market for 6 month.

The fact that ISS and KZSF are sequels is basically irrelevant considering, both games basically use custom engines that haven't been used for the previous entries.

At least for ISS and Driveclub the reasons for delay are obvious, they are making higher quality assets, which take a signifcantly longer time to make than anything else in game development.

Development Architecture is irrelevant if you are making 1080p assets rather than 720 p assets.

Ease of Development increases what developers can do and how fast they can do it, but it also increases the quality and amount of assets that needs to be created.

In other words, more work for artists, writers, musicians, and all the other non technical people. Hence Delays, as the industry adjusts.

One of the biggest complaints with Reviewers about ISS is that its story was weak compared to its predecessors. Thats a problem of being easier to develop for.

edit: being able to do more, means that you actually have to do more.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
Well, Nintendo has been delayings game and they have had a year in,  conversely PS4 has been on the market for 6 month.

The fact that ISS and KZSF are sequels is basically irrelevant considering, both games basically use custom engines that haven't been used for the previous entries.

At least for ISS and Driveclub the reasons for delay are obvious, they are making higher quality assets, which take a signifcantly longer time to make than anything else in game development.

Development Architecture is irrelevant if you are making 1080p assets rather than 720 p assets.

Ease of Development increases what developers can do and how fast they can do it, but it also increases the quality and amount of assets that needs to be created.

In other words, more work for artists, writers, musicians, and all the other non technical people. Hence Delays, as the industry adjusts.

One of the biggest complaints with Reviewers about ISS is that its story was weak compared to its predecessors. Thats a problem of being easier to develop for.

edit: being able to do more, means that you actually have to do more.

Nintendo is experiencing the pains many developers faced during the 7th gen. It's their first time building games on this type of technology and they have a lot to learn and I don't think anyone would say it's been a swift lesson.  

It's very relevant.  They've done multiple games of the same type already.  It gives them goals and specifics in what they need to aim for this engine to accomplish. It cost far more to make UE in which you can make any kind of game than to make Gears of War in particular.  

I don't agree that being able to do more means that you have to.  I think most of the industry just can't compete on making appealing games so they spend money on graphics to differentiate on a few gameplay concepts.    

Japanese developers and any B tier sized game  companies have't been able to absorb these costs as it is.  This is a problem irrespective of how much easier PS4 is to develop for.  More work but same revenue is a bad recipe.  Many of the Japanese developers have found success by moving to handhelds and mobile where costs are lower.  



nitekrawler1285 said:

Nintendo is experiencing the pains many developers faced during the 7th gen. It's their first time building games on this type of technology and they have a lot to learn and I don't think anyone would say it's been a swift lesson.  

It's very relevant.  They've done multiple games of the same type already.  It gives them goals and specifics in what they need to aim for this engine to accomplish. It cost far more to make UE in which you can make any kind of game than to make Gears of War in particular.  

I don't agree that being able to do more means that you have to.  I think most of the industry just can't compete on making appealing games so they spend money on graphics to differentiate on a few gameplay concepts.    

Japanese developers and any B tier sized game  companies have't been able to absorb these costs as it is.  This is a problem irrespective of how much easier PS4 is to develop for.  More work but same revenue is a bad recipe.  Many of the Japanese developers have found success by moving to handhelds and mobile where costs are lower.  

You're catching on, but you're a bit confused.

Asset Creation is typically what drives up the development costs of games and is typically what seperates indies, AA, and AAAs. KH 1.5 is the perfect example, its a remake of an already existing game, but because they lost most of KH1s assets, the process of remaking assets for 1080p took quite a while.

So just because they know how to make the game doesn't mean they can easily make the HD assets.

I mean, Indies are making games for the PS4, maybe these japanese developers should stop over exerting themselves like Capcom and SE.

Thus, Ease of Development (specifically programming) means more can be done, and if more is done then it will take longer.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

Nintendo is experiencing the pains many developers faced during the 7th gen. It's their first time building games on this type of technology and they have a lot to learn and I don't think anyone would say it's been a swift lesson.  

It's very relevant.  They've done multiple games of the same type already.  It gives them goals and specifics in what they need to aim for this engine to accomplish. It cost far more to make UE in which you can make any kind of game than to make Gears of War in particular.  

I don't agree that being able to do more means that you have to.  I think most of the industry just can't compete on making appealing games so they spend money on graphics to differentiate on a few gameplay concepts.    

Japanese developers and any B tier sized game  companies have't been able to absorb these costs as it is.  This is a problem irrespective of how much easier PS4 is to develop for.  More work but same revenue is a bad recipe.  Many of the Japanese developers have found success by moving to handhelds and mobile where costs are lower.  

You're catching on, but you're a bit confused.

Asset Creation is typically what drives up the development costs of games and is typically what seperates indies, AA, and AAAs. KH 1.5 is the perfect example, its a remake of an already existing game, but because they lost most of KH1s assets, the process of remaking assets for 1080p took quite a while.

So just because they know how to make the game doesn't mean they can easily make the HD assets.

I mean, Indies are making games for the PS4, maybe these japanese developers should stop over exerting themselves like Capcom and SE.

Thus, Ease of Development (specifically programming) means more can be done, and if more is done then it will take longer.


This is ridiculous.  I can rip the models and textures from KH.  Open 3DS Max or Maya and up the iterations to smooth it out or add turbo smooth. 

They are so much more far behind than I could have ever imagined.