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Forums - Nintendo - 3DS is cannibalizing Wii U

curl-6 on 27 March 2014
Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:
leyendax69 said:

Maybe they didn't make any big mistakes. I'm not saying they are irrelevant because is not true, but their brand and franchises are less popular every time. A lot of Nintendo fans disenchanted with Wii (I'm one of them) so is not to hard to realise why wii u is selling like crap.

I do not believe that the Wii caused a net loss of Nintendo fans, since Nintendo franchises, even the less  casual friendly ones like Zelda, sold better on Wii than GC. (Which is where the real exodus occurred) 


It alienated some people, also I think while the Wii had a lot of good will in its earlier years, a lot of that good will started to subside by about the middle of the generation and by the end of the generation for a lot of people Wii was that "thing" that was gathering dust in the corner or that they only used for Netflix. 

For a system that had a 100 million userbase, it could barely sell things like Sin & Punishment, Red Steel 2, Metroid: Other M, Xenoblade, and even relatively underwhelming Zelda: Skyward Sword numbers, etc. towards the end of its life span, which to me indicates a lot of people were bailing out in droves and buying a PS3 or 360 to become their primary gamer console if they hadn't already. 

Sin & Punishment was a niche game; an arcade rail shooter in 2010? It was never going to sell gangbusters.

Red Steel 2 was pretty left of field too, required and add-on, and shared the name of one of the system's most disappointing games, the odds were against it  from day 1.

Other M was a shit game that went against everything fans loved about the series, so its easy to see why that wasn't a megaton.

Xenoblade actually sold really well for a 7th gen JPRG and a new IP.

And Skyward Sword had the same problem as Majora's Mask; it arrived in the final days of the system and needed an add-on.



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Soundwave on 27 March 2014
curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:
leyendax69 said:

Maybe they didn't make any big mistakes. I'm not saying they are irrelevant because is not true, but their brand and franchises are less popular every time. A lot of Nintendo fans disenchanted with Wii (I'm one of them) so is not to hard to realise why wii u is selling like crap.

I do not believe that the Wii caused a net loss of Nintendo fans, since Nintendo franchises, even the less  casual friendly ones like Zelda, sold better on Wii than GC. (Which is where the real exodus occurred) 


It alienated some people, also I think while the Wii had a lot of good will in its earlier years, a lot of that good will started to subside by about the middle of the generation and by the end of the generation for a lot of people Wii was that "thing" that was gathering dust in the corner or that they only used for Netflix. 

For a system that had a 100 million userbase, it could barely sell things like Sin & Punishment, Red Steel 2, Metroid: Other M, Xenoblade, and even relatively underwhelming Zelda: Skyward Sword numbers, etc. towards the end of its life span, which to me indicates a lot of people were bailing out in droves and buying a PS3 or 360 to become their primary gamer console if they hadn't already. 

Sin & Punishment was a niche game; an arcade rail shooter in 2010? It was never going to sell gangbusters.

Red Steel 2 was pretty left of field too, required and add-on, and shared the name of one of the system's most disappointing games, the odds were against it  from day 1.

Other M was a shit game that went against everything fans loved about the series, so its easy to see why that wasn't a megaton.

Xenoblade actually sold really well for a 7th gen JPRG and a new IP.

And Skyward Sword had the same problem as Majora's Mask; it arrived in the final days of the system and needed an add-on.


Even so, the Wii had a 100 million userbase. If it really had this huge ravenous audience wanting these types of core experiences, I have to think a lot of these games would've sold better. There are plenty of "mixed reviews" hardcore games on the 360/PS3 that sold just fine for instance. 

These people had moved on by the second half of the generation to the 360/PS3, that's another thing badly underestimated ... Wii owners didn't need a HD console because already bought one, it just happened to be a Sony or Microsoft one. 



Michael-5 on 27 March 2014
curl-6 said:
Michael-5 said:

Yet DS sales boosted Wii sales? Your logic is flawed.

DS and Wii were different enough not to cannibalize each other.

Right because Mario Kart DS and Mario Kart Wii (best selling DS & Wii games) were so different.



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Soundwave on 27 March 2014
Michael-5 said:
curl-6 said:
Michael-5 said:

Yet DS sales boosted Wii sales? Your logic is flawed.

DS and Wii were different enough not to cannibalize each other.

Right because Mario Kart DS and Mario Kart Wii (best selling DS & Wii games) were so different.


Brain Training, Nintendogs, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, were all pretty different and unique experiences for their time though. Not very many people bought a Wii just for Mario Kart, that was more like the agreed upon desert after having the main meal. 



curl-6 on 27 March 2014
Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

Sin & Punishment was a niche game; an arcade rail shooter in 2010? It was never going to sell gangbusters.

Red Steel 2 was pretty left of field too, required and add-on, and shared the name of one of the system's most disappointing games, the odds were against it  from day 1.

Other M was a shit game that went against everything fans loved about the series, so its easy to see why that wasn't a megaton.

Xenoblade actually sold really well for a 7th gen JPRG and a new IP.

And Skyward Sword had the same problem as Majora's Mask; it arrived in the final days of the system and needed an add-on.


Even so, the Wii had a 100 million userbase. If it really had this huge ravenous audience wanting these types of core experiences, I have to think a lot of these games would've sold better. There are plenty of "mixed reviews" hardcore games on the 360/PS3 that sold just fine for instance. 

These people had moved on by the second half of the generation to the 360/PS3, that's another thing badly underestimated ... Wii owners didn't need a HD console because already bought one, it just happened to be a Sony or Microsoft one. 

Let's look at the PS2 for a sec; it had a 150 million install base, and  yet...

- Goldeneye Rogue Agent barely sold more than Red Steel 2, despite being the sequel to a game that sold over 8 million.

- Critical darling Okami barely crossed 600k also.

- Silent Hill 4 barely crossed 500k, despite being from a popular series.

Clearly a big install base does not guarantee that every game will sell well.



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curl-6 on 27 March 2014
Michael-5 said:
curl-6 said:
Michael-5 said:

Yet DS sales boosted Wii sales? Your logic is flawed.

DS and Wii were different enough not to cannibalize each other.

Right because Mario Kart DS and Mario Kart Wii (best selling DS & Wii games) were so different.

The Wiimote made all the difference between the two systems.

Also, DS didn't have Mario Galaxy Portable or Smash Bros Brawl For DS.



Seece on 27 March 2014

Funny how this didn't happen last gen tho??

3DS is just far more accessible.



 

zorg1000 on 27 March 2014
Michael-5 said:

Yet DS sales boosted Wii sales? Your logic is flawed.


Thats not what he is saying at all. Wii and DS were vastly different in terms of hardware and software. Touch controls vs motion controls, Nintendogs/Brain Training/Pokemon vs Wii Sports/Wii Fit/Smash Bros, large graphical leap with DS primarily 2D and Wii primarily 3D. Some games like Mario Kart and 2D Mario were similar but compare Mario 64 DS vs Mario Galaxy or Twilight Princess/Skyward Sword vs Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks.

Now lets look at 3DS vs Wii U, both have motion controls, both have touch screens, both can easily handle nice looking 3D graphics and the big hitters on both are very similar to the point that the average person would think the Wii U versions are merely HD upgrades. Compare 3D Land vs 3D World, Ocarina of Time 3D vs Wind Waker HD, DKC Returns 3D vs DKC Tropical Freeze, NSMB2 vs NSMBU, Mario Kart 7 vs Mario Kart 8, Smash Bros 3DS vs Smash Bros Wii U plus 3DS has other big hitters like Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Pokemon X/Y, Link Between Worlds and a ton of Japanese 3rd party support while also being about half the price.



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Soundwave on 27 March 2014
curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

Sin & Punishment was a niche game; an arcade rail shooter in 2010? It was never going to sell gangbusters.

Red Steel 2 was pretty left of field too, required and add-on, and shared the name of one of the system's most disappointing games, the odds were against it  from day 1.

Other M was a shit game that went against everything fans loved about the series, so its easy to see why that wasn't a megaton.

Xenoblade actually sold really well for a 7th gen JPRG and a new IP.

And Skyward Sword had the same problem as Majora's Mask; it arrived in the final days of the system and needed an add-on.


Even so, the Wii had a 100 million userbase. If it really had this huge ravenous audience wanting these types of core experiences, I have to think a lot of these games would've sold better. There are plenty of "mixed reviews" hardcore games on the 360/PS3 that sold just fine for instance. 

These people had moved on by the second half of the generation to the 360/PS3, that's another thing badly underestimated ... Wii owners didn't need a HD console because already bought one, it just happened to be a Sony or Microsoft one. 

Let's look at the PS2 for a sec; it had a 150 million install base, and  yet...

- Goldeneye Rogue Agent barely sold more than Red Steel 2, despite being the sequel to a game that sold over 8 million.

- Critical darling Okami barely crossed 600k also.

- Silent Hill 4 barely crossed 500k, despite being from a popular series.

Clearly a big install base does not guarantee that every game will sell well.

But PS2 obviously had many instances of tons of hardcore games selling extremely well. The Wii does not. People used the Wii as their party console, but if they wanted to do any serious gaming beyond their Mario/Mario Kart sweet tooth, it's fairly obvious they bought one of the other two HD consoles. 

I had many friends that bought a Wii and were really excited about it in 2006/2007/2008, but by the second half of the generation, they were playing almost exclusively on their PS3 or 360 and rarely even bothering to boot up their Wii at all. 

There's also so many hours you can play Wii Sports before it starts to get stale. 



Soundwave on 27 March 2014
curl-6 said:

Many would have you believe that people "just don't want Nintendo games any more" because of the Wii U, but sales of 9.36m for Mario Kart 7, 9.35m for Super Mario 3D Land, 7.37m for New Super Mario Bros 2 show this is blatantly untrue. 3DS's 43m sales also show that "people don't want Nintendo hardware" is false as well.

The real problem is, people won't spend $300 USD to get their Nintendo fix when they can get it on 3DS for half the price.

Their libraries are too similar; why get a Wii U for 3D World or NSMBU when you can play 3D Land and NSMB2 for less? To the audience for these games, HD is simply not a big enough lure to jusify spending an extra $150.

Wii U software needs to differentiate itself from 3DS, to do things impossible on 3DS and be notably different in approach to 3DS's offerings in the same series or genre. For example, make Zelda Wii U nothing like Link Between Worlds.

I kinda liken it this way ... if Nintendo was a restaurant, they'd be that restaurant you grew up with that had the *best* deserts. To die for really. But as you got older you noticed their general menu, overall ambiance, and service were kinda shoddy compared to other restaurants. You stopped eating there a long time ago, nothing personal, it's just they couldn't match up with other restaurants. 

But one day all of the sudden that restaurant had a new hot dish that everyone was reccomending, it was getting famous and word was spreading. Suddenly that restaurants business was booming again. So you decide to go back there, and of course you're going to try the desert too. 

Mario is the desert ... most people have a soft spot for Mario. The problem is people are not going to come to a restaurant just for desert. It's something they'll have if there's something else there to attract them to eat there first. 

That's Nintendo's problem is they have an attitude that if they do just one thing right, they can slack off in other areas (ie: marketing, third party relations, understanding the Western market, etc.).