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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo have never pushed their own systems the hardest

curl-6 on 17 March 2014
TheLastStarFighter said:
I've had similar thoughts to this at times, but I'm not sure that it's true.

NES: Nintendo really pushed the boundaries of 8-bit development here. SMB3 did some some pretty awesome stuff. Games like Zelda and Metroid also pushed what a game could be. Other games like FF3 and late comers like TMNT2 and Battletoads may have been the absolute max of the system, but many Nintendo games really broke new ground.

SNES: On launch it was definitely non-Nintendo titles that looked the most impressive. Castlevania 4 and FFIV stood out as next-gen much more than SMW - although F-Zero was also very breath-taking, as was Pilotwings. In the end Rare's DKC series was the presentation benchmark. So if you want to count Rare as Nintendo, then I think they really pushed the system's abilities.

N64: For me the groundbreaking games on the system are M64, OoT and MM. So I would say that Nintendo really pushed the N64 and were at the cutting edge of game tech during these years. You could also include Goldeneye for being groundbreaking.

GC: I would call Zelda:WW the benchmark.

Wii: SMG and Xenoblade were the games that pushed the system the best.

Wii U: To date, the best presentation is SM3DW.

In summary, I think that Nintendo actually does push the limits of its hardware. I think lately they are really missing the skill of good third party support that can make games with different themes and presentation that can push the system, but overall Nintendo has frequently made some pretty ground-breaking titles. Even if sometimes they were exceeded at some point by a 3rd party game, it's not necessarily for the better. A game like Doom on SNES may push the system beyond its limits, but I don't really think that's a good thing. Programming within the limits can give you a better result, and sometimes takes more true skill.

Nintendo has often pushed their own systems tech - I'd like to see that a little more with Wii U. Mario and Zelda games should really be ground breaking. I'm hoping for something good with Zelda U.

I never said  Nintendo doesn't push their console's tech; they obviously do, every one of their consoles except Wii U has multiple first party games that push it. It's just that other devs push them harder.

The Conduit games and Jett Rocket are doing more high-end effects than SMG or Xenoblade, (normal mapping, dynamic global lighting, depth of field, interactive water physics, etc) and as gorgeous as 3D World looks, its not pushing textures, lighting, effects, AA, etc to the same level as Trine 2 Director's Cut.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 17 March 2014
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:

And what exactly is wrong with what they are doing with Hyrule Warriors?

Its going to be cheap and not up to Nintendo level standards. 

Better than no game at all.

I think thats their mindset and they are just filling in gaps until the real Zelda coms out. Its sad, but what can you do. I'm only expressing concern because I want Nintendo to do well, but I've seen these movements before during the Cube era and some things were praised, but mostly they werent.



curl-6 on 17 March 2014
baloofarsan said:

All I see here are two blank rectangles.

EDIT: Wow, they appear in my quote but not on your post... XD



baloofarsan on 17 March 2014
curl-6 said:
baloofarsan said:

All I see here are two blank rectangles.

EDIT: Wow, they appear in my quote but not on your post... XD


Yeah, I know, trying the hard way to teach myself how to embed a video. Sorry for the inconvenience



curl-6 on 17 March 2014
baloofarsan said:

Yeah, I know, trying the hard way to teach myself how to embed a video. Sorry for the inconvenience

Well you're ahead of me, I don't even know how... XD



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TheLastStarFighter on 17 March 2014
curl-6 said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
I've had similar thoughts to this at times, but I'm not sure that it's true.

NES: Nintendo really pushed the boundaries of 8-bit development here. SMB3 did some some pretty awesome stuff. Games like Zelda and Metroid also pushed what a game could be. Other games like FF3 and late comers like TMNT2 and Battletoads may have been the absolute max of the system, but many Nintendo games really broke new ground.

SNES: On launch it was definitely non-Nintendo titles that looked the most impressive. Castlevania 4 and FFIV stood out as next-gen much more than SMW - although F-Zero was also very breath-taking, as was Pilotwings. In the end Rare's DKC series was the presentation benchmark. So if you want to count Rare as Nintendo, then I think they really pushed the system's abilities.

N64: For me the groundbreaking games on the system are M64, OoT and MM. So I would say that Nintendo really pushed the N64 and were at the cutting edge of game tech during these years. You could also include Goldeneye for being groundbreaking.

GC: I would call Zelda:WW the benchmark.

Wii: SMG and Xenoblade were the games that pushed the system the best.

Wii U: To date, the best presentation is SM3DW.

In summary, I think that Nintendo actually does push the limits of its hardware. I think lately they are really missing the skill of good third party support that can make games with different themes and presentation that can push the system, but overall Nintendo has frequently made some pretty ground-breaking titles. Even if sometimes they were exceeded at some point by a 3rd party game, it's not necessarily for the better. A game like Doom on SNES may push the system beyond its limits, but I don't really think that's a good thing. Programming within the limits can give you a better result, and sometimes takes more true skill.

Nintendo has often pushed their own systems tech - I'd like to see that a little more with Wii U. Mario and Zelda games should really be ground breaking. I'm hoping for something good with Zelda U.

I never said  Nintendo doesn't push their console's tech; they obviously do, every one of their consoles except Wii U has multiple first party games that push it. It's just that other devs push them harder.

The Conduit games and Jett Rocket are doing more high-end effects than SMG or Xenoblade, (normal mapping, dynamic global lighting, depth of field, interactive water physics, etc) and as gorgeous as 3D World looks, its not pushing textures, lighting, effects, AA, etc to the same level as Trine 2 Director's Cut.

Yeah, I guess what I would say is that while some 3rd party games may push Nintendo systems to the absolute limit, quite often it's Nintendo games making the biggest "jump" on the system.  I.E., TLoZ introduced open world, save states, complicated item collection, etc to NES.  Other games would build on that and push the system further, but the jumps would be smaller than what Zelda would do.  Similar to M64 and OoT - Nintendo used the system to break ground with those titles.  Some later titles would push it further but in many ways just building a little more on what Nintendo already did.

I honestly never played Conduit and Jett Rocket and I'm sure they have more high-end effects than Xenoblade, but do they have an overall impressive presentation like the Monolith title?  I'm thinking of great graphic detail, music, character models and ridiculous draw distances?

I would call Trine 2 and SM3DW close in terms of technical impressiveness.  Trine's amazing, but 3DW has some pretty next-gen effects in terms of lighting, water, etc.  The character models are also extremely detailed - Mario looks like a real clay puppet from an old Nintendo Power cover. Combined with the moving camera in a true 3D environment and I'd put Mario ahead a little compared to Trine 2.



Play4Fun on 17 March 2014
curl-6 said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
I've had similar thoughts to this at times, but I'm not sure that it's true.

NES: Nintendo really pushed the boundaries of 8-bit development here. SMB3 did some some pretty awesome stuff. Games like Zelda and Metroid also pushed what a game could be. Other games like FF3 and lthe N64 and were at the cutting edge of game tech during these years. You could also include Goldeneye for being groundbreaking.

GC: I would call Zelda:WW the benchmark.

Wii: SMG and Xenoblade were the games that pushed the system the best.

Wii U: To date, the best presentation is SM3DW.

In summary, I think that Nintendo actually does push the limits of its hardware. I think lately they are really missing the skill of good third party support that can make games with different themes and presentation that can push the system, but overall Nintendo has frequently made some pretty ground-breaking titles. Even if sometimes they were exceeded at some point by a 3rd party game, it's not necessarily for the better. A game like Doom on SNES may push the system beyond its limits, but I don't really think that's a good thing. Programming within the limits can give you a better result, and sometimes takes more true skill.

Nintendo has often pushed their own systems tech - I'd like to see that a little more with Wii U. Mario and Zelda games should really be ground breaking. I'm hoping for something good with Zelda U.

I never said  Nintendo doesn't push their console's tech; they obviously do, every one of their consoles except Wii U has multiple first party games that push it. It's just that other devs push them harder.

The Conduit games and Jett Rocket are doing more high-end effects than SMG or Xenoblade, (normal mapping, dynamic global lighting, depth of field, interactive water physics, etc) and as gorgeous as 3D World looks, its not pushing textures, lighting, effects, AA, etc to the same level as Trine 2 Director's Cut.


Yeah... neither Conduit nor Jett Rocket make as impressive a use of Wii's hardware as Xenoblade.



d21lewis on 17 March 2014

Jumping in on the Rare/DKC/Starfox thing--I bought the green DKC N64 with the Expansion Pak etc. the Chrismas of 1998, I think. Even then, despite the amount of love Rare pumped into the game, reviewers were complaining that it was "more of the same" and another Rare "Collect-a-thon".

Now Conker was amazing. Rare still had the magic. I even bought the Xbox version to play on my 360 and I honestly believe it was an improvement over the N64 (some assholes disagree because they're wrong). Now, I'll gladly say that if Nintendo was holding Rare back or if Nintendo was the reason why SFA--a blatant Zelda rip-off--sucked (and, I know I use parenthesis a lot but damn. Forgive me but I thought Starfox Adventures was GREAT!), then why did Rare go to such shit immediately after leaving? Yeah, I though Kameo was good but Grabbed by the Ghoulies? Perfect Dark Zero? Nuts and Bolts?



Michael-5 on 17 March 2014

I disagree.

NES: Super Mario Bros. 3, The Legend of Zelda

SNES: Super Mario RPG: The Legend of the Seven Stars

N64: Conker

GCN: Resident Evil 4 & Twilight Princess (so tie)

Wii: XenoBlade Chronicles by a mile

WiiU: Too early to tell, but Pikmin 3 looks amazing

------

GB: Pokemon Blue/Red & Zelda's

GBC: Pokemon Gold/Silver & Zelda's

GBA: Golden Sun's

DS: Super Mario 64 DS? Don't remember a clear cut leader

3DS: Ocarina of Time 3D



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curl-6 on 17 March 2014
Play4Fun said:
curl-6 said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
I've had similar thoughts to this at times, but I'm not sure that it's true.

NES: Nintendo really pushed the boundaries of 8-bit development here. SMB3 did some some pretty awesome stuff. Games like Zelda and Metroid also pushed what a game could be. Other games like FF3 and lthe N64 and were at the cutting edge of game tech during these years. You could also include Goldeneye for being groundbreaking.

GC: I would call Zelda:WW the benchmark.

Wii: SMG and Xenoblade were the games that pushed the system the best.

Wii U: To date, the best presentation is SM3DW.

In summary, I think that Nintendo actually does push the limits of its hardware. I think lately they are really missing the skill of good third party support that can make games with different themes and presentation that can push the system, but overall Nintendo has frequently made some pretty ground-breaking titles. Even if sometimes they were exceeded at some point by a 3rd party game, it's not necessarily for the better. A game like Doom on SNES may push the system beyond its limits, but I don't really think that's a good thing. Programming within the limits can give you a better result, and sometimes takes more true skill.

Nintendo has often pushed their own systems tech - I'd like to see that a little more with Wii U. Mario and Zelda games should really be ground breaking. I'm hoping for something good with Zelda U.

I never said  Nintendo doesn't push their console's tech; they obviously do, every one of their consoles except Wii U has multiple first party games that push it. It's just that other devs push them harder.

The Conduit games and Jett Rocket are doing more high-end effects than SMG or Xenoblade, (normal mapping, dynamic global lighting, depth of field, interactive water physics, etc) and as gorgeous as 3D World looks, its not pushing textures, lighting, effects, AA, etc to the same level as Trine 2 Director's Cut.


Yeah... neither Conduit nor Jett Rocket make as impressive a use of Wii's hardware as Xenoblade.

Xenoblade made great use of Wii's RAM to create massive environments. 

But Jett Rocket/Conduit had normal mapping, dynamic global lighting, depth of field, interactive water simulation, multilayered shaders on almost every surface...