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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo have never pushed their own systems the hardest

Michael-5 said:
curl-6 said:
Michael-5 said:

So what? XenoBlade still looks better. Virtua Tennis 3 is one of the only PS3/360 gaves to run native 1080p, does that make it better looking then God of War or Mass Effect? Heck no. Same applies here, it pushes the Wii much harder to make a large environment then it does to make a small one with some added effects.

I meant Super Mario World 2* uses the FX 2 chip, and it's not that impressive. SMRPG is the clear cut best looking SNES game.

This isn't about what the best looking though, it's about what is the most processor intensive.

On the Wii, doing effects like normal mapping stress the system more than wide open environments. Hell, just to get these effects to work at all you have to essentially hack the GPU and "trick" it into doing things it was never designed to do. 

Same for the SNES; it was never meant to do 3D at all, and Doom not only does 3D, but unlike other FX chip titles, it pushes textured environments instead of mostly flat shaded ones. Doom is essentially a 5th gen game running on 4th gen hardware. 

Yes, and I think XenoBlade Chronicles is the most processor intensive game on the Wii. The texture level might not be high, but to render all those blades of grass, all those polygons (in the mechonis), all thos unique character models.....that game blows my mind.

Doom for SNES was a 3D game, but nearly every texture was flat, 2D, and heavily pixilated. Take something like Star Fox 2, and there are a lot of true 3D polygons to render. Similar story for Super Mario RPG, while it's sprite based 3D, it's still the best looking 3D SNES game. I dunno if Doom uses more processing power, but in terms of graphical output it's nowhere near Star Fox 2 or Super Mario RPG.

----

If you're going to argue Jett Rocket and Doom take up more processing power, but don't look as impressive....that's just a fools arguement. Can't punish Nintendo devs for getting more out of games, while asking less from the CPU. I have no way of measuring the CPU stress of a game, but I can say that Star Fox 2 doesn't emulate well on PSP. Either way, Nintendo's made the most graphical output out of any dev for their consoles (except maybe GCN with RE4, but it's a close call with Zelda)

Of course Doom's textures were flat and pixelated, its an SNES, it's not meant to be doing 3D at all, much less with actual textures. And Mario RPG wasn't 3D at all, it used pre-rendered sprites like the Donkey Kong Country games.

What looks "impressive" is down to a person's subjective perception. But in terms of pushing the technological limits of the system's chipset, Nintendo didn't make any games that incorporated the kind of effects the Conduit games use; effects that, on paper, shouldn't be possible on the hardware. 



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curl-6 said:

Of course Doom's textures were flat and pixelated, its an SNES, it's not meant to be doing 3D at all, much less with actual textures. And Mario RPG wasn't 3D at all, it used pre-rendered sprites like the Donkey Kong Country games.

What looks "impressive" is down to a person's subjective perception. But in terms of pushing the technological limits of the system's chipset, Nintendo didn't make any games that incorporated the kind of effects the Conduit games use; effects that, on paper, shouldn't be possible on the hardware. 

I disagree, Star Fox 2 >> Doom in terms of processing power (I can play SNES Doom on my PSP, but no way can I play Starfox)

XenoBlade > The Conduit, when your draw distance is only a few feet, that really cuts down on the CPU power required. To render everything in XenoBlade to the level of detail shown, that's impressive.



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Michael-5 said:
curl-6 said:

Of course Doom's textures were flat and pixelated, its an SNES, it's not meant to be doing 3D at all, much less with actual textures. And Mario RPG wasn't 3D at all, it used pre-rendered sprites like the Donkey Kong Country games.

What looks "impressive" is down to a person's subjective perception. But in terms of pushing the technological limits of the system's chipset, Nintendo didn't make any games that incorporated the kind of effects the Conduit games use; effects that, on paper, shouldn't be possible on the hardware. 

I disagree, Star Fox 2 >> Doom in terms of processing power (I can play SNES Doom on my PSP, but no way can I play Starfox)

XenoBlade > The Conduit, when your draw distance is only a few feet, that really cuts down on the CPU power required. To render everything in XenoBlade to the level of detail shown, that's impressive.

Starfox 2 is an incomplete beta, so its likely not optimized as far as Doom, hence harder to emulate. As hugely impressive as Starfox 2 is, its still not textruing all its walls the way Doom is.

Conduit 1 & 2 do have some open areas, where they still manage to pull of normal mapping, depth of field, bloom, etc.



Doom is made of Rayligh tech. which is not real textured 3D thats why SNES can move Doom with "textures" but real polygons like Starwing have to be flat and without texture at all.



curl-6 said:
Michael-5 said:
curl-6 said:

Of course Doom's textures were flat and pixelated, its an SNES, it's not meant to be doing 3D at all, much less with actual textures. And Mario RPG wasn't 3D at all, it used pre-rendered sprites like the Donkey Kong Country games.

What looks "impressive" is down to a person's subjective perception. But in terms of pushing the technological limits of the system's chipset, Nintendo didn't make any games that incorporated the kind of effects the Conduit games use; effects that, on paper, shouldn't be possible on the hardware. 

I disagree, Star Fox 2 >> Doom in terms of processing power (I can play SNES Doom on my PSP, but no way can I play Starfox)

XenoBlade > The Conduit, when your draw distance is only a few feet, that really cuts down on the CPU power required. To render everything in XenoBlade to the level of detail shown, that's impressive.

Starfox 2 is an incomplete beta, so its likely not optimized as far as Doom, hence harder to emulate. As hugely impressive as Starfox 2 is, its still not textruing all its walls the way Doom is.

Conduit 1 & 2 do have some open areas, where they still manage to pull of normal mapping, depth of field, bloom, etc.

Starfox 2 was actually completed, just unreleased because Starfox 64 was releasing soon.

Star Fox 1 is still similar, unlike doom it has polygons, not flat sprites in a 3D space.

Conduit's open area's are nothing compared to XenoBlade.



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For the Wii I'm still confortable to say Black Ops 1 and Modern Warfare 3
10 players online in multi
4 players in zombies
Many killstreaks at the same time
Mic support
Had everything the HD versions had, for the exception of air controllable killstreaks.






Michael-5 said:

Starfox 2 was actually completed, just unreleased because Starfox 64 was releasing soon.

Star Fox 1 is still similar, unlike doom it has polygons, not flat sprites in a 3D space.

Conduit's open area's are nothing compared to XenoBlade.

I seriously doubt Starfox 2 was finished considering the amount of bugs in it.

Also, Doom was a high PC game coming out 4 years after the SNES, that even the Saturn and PS1 couldn't run perfectly.The SNES running it was insane.

And Xenoblade's simplistic lighting and shading effects are nothing compared to Conduit/Jett Rocket. It's PS2-level in terms of effects, because its massive scale leaves no memory for complex graphics techniques.

Xenoblade water: (A bullshot, but only because the real res ones didn't show water up close)


Conduit water: (And not even it's best; for the life of me I couldn't find a pic of its dynamic fluid simulation)



MsClasher said:

For the Wii I'm still confortable to say Black Ops 1 and Modern Warfare 3
10 players online in multi
4 players in zombies
Many killstreaks at the same time
Mic support
Had everything the HD versions had, for the exception of air controllable killstreaks.




Modern Warfare 3 pushes the Wii damn hard; dozens of characters all running squad AI, ragdoll physics, and tons of animations in large streaming environments with air strikes, grenades, and all manner of mayhem going on at once, it's incredible the Wii doesn't burst into flames haha.

The scene on the bridge in Paris, where an insane pitched battle climaxes in a carpet bombing and the Eiffel Tower crumbling and crashing down into the river in realtime was just stunning. I never thought I'd see something like that running on Wii.



curl-6 said:
Michael-5 said:

Starfox 2 was actually completed, just unreleased because Starfox 64 was releasing soon.

Star Fox 1 is still similar, unlike doom it has polygons, not flat sprites in a 3D space.

Conduit's open area's are nothing compared to XenoBlade.

I seriously doubt Starfox 2 was finished considering the amount of bugs in it.

Also, Doom was a high PC game coming out 4 years after the SNES, that even the Saturn and PS1 couldn't run perfectly.The SNES running it was insane.

And Xenoblade's simplistic lighting and shading effects are nothing compared to Conduit/Jett Rocket. It's PS2-level in terms of effects, because its massive scale leaves no memory for complex graphics techniques.

Xenoblade water: (A bullshot, but only because the real res ones didn't show water up close)

Conduit water: (And not even it's best; for the life of me I couldn't find a pic of its dynamic fluid simulation)

The textures in Conduit look terrible, XenoBlade looks much much better.

Anyway, I disagree with you. No point arguing furthur.



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Vote for the March Most Wanted / February Results

Michael-5 said:
curl-6 said:
Michael-5 said:

Starfox 2 was actually completed, just unreleased because Starfox 64 was releasing soon.

Star Fox 1 is still similar, unlike doom it has polygons, not flat sprites in a 3D space.

Conduit's open area's are nothing compared to XenoBlade.

I seriously doubt Starfox 2 was finished considering the amount of bugs in it.

Also, Doom was a high PC game coming out 4 years after the SNES, that even the Saturn and PS1 couldn't run perfectly.The SNES running it was insane.

And Xenoblade's simplistic lighting and shading effects are nothing compared to Conduit/Jett Rocket. It's PS2-level in terms of effects, because its massive scale leaves no memory for complex graphics techniques.

Xenoblade water: (A bullshot, but only because the real res ones didn't show water up close)

Conduit water: (And not even it's best; for the life of me I couldn't find a pic of its dynamic fluid simulation)

The textures in Conduit look terrible, XenoBlade looks much much better.

Anyway, I disagree with you. No point arguing furthur.

Conduit 1 & 2 have the best textures on Wii in terms of resolution; most surfaces use S3 texture compression for textures 6 times higher resolution than Wii games without it. (Which is pretty much every other Wii game)

But you're right, it's clear we are not going to agree.