ok fair enough. I was under the assumption that there was a standard for what a console needs to sell in order to not be a flop. 

Mario Kart will help a lot. Smash will do just fine although will be under GameCube numbers.

i guess there are also other factors to consider, like follow up. I think the Wii U situation looks even worse when you consider its following up the WIi which did 100mil that is a MASSIVE drop from one console to the next. Much worse than even PS2 to 3

The PS3 was saved in part by the Wii's great sales.  if the Wii wasn't there I think it would have done even worse than it did.  The PS4 is just falling back on its hardcore group.   You're acting under the assumption that the Wii hurt the PS3's sales in some way.  No, its the other way around.  PS3 was a disgrace, that would have crashed the industry last gen, the Wii saved the industry and the PS3 with it.  No Nintendo means worse sales.  

Wii saved PS3? A rival product taking market share from you, right, right. All this time I thought PS3 saved itself, well now that the Wii U is flopping I guess the industry is finished oh wait PS4 is breaking records and Xbone is outpacing the X360 at 500$ price tag.

Anyhow back to the point: You said PS4 won't hit 70M and you are completely wrong based on hard data and previous trends, you can't spin that.

I've already proven the record breaking is completely meaningless.  Secondly yes the Xbox One with a price tag of 500 dollars and the stigma of DRM branded on it is doing worse than the PS4 which has a history of taking first place in a console generation...  What hard data, I've seen swiss cheese with less holes.  

And yes a rival product that has a completely different audience was bringing renewed interest in the gaming industry when there wasn't really anything to be that interested in.  

I believe that not only did the Sony brand which has dulled over the years, console gaming in general is going the way of the dinosaurs because innovative gameplay is stuck in the indie market.  If people are gonna play indie, they my as well just go to steam.  All those indie games can be played on an older computer, why bother with a console for that.  

I've proven that my argument exists, who's right is guesswork.  You don't have any new facts to introduce and you should know that I can probably tear down anymore so called "hard facts" like the ones you've already introduced.  My original comment stands, I guess 70M for the PS4.

That's what I would like to say, but I think my argument is pretty damned solid.  There are all kinds of things killing the console gaming market this generation, that weren't nearly as big a factor as they were last generation.  If graphics is the only innovation PS4 offers, it will be lucky to get 70M.

The Gamecube launched 1 year after PS2.  If you use the Sony system as a benchmark for a generation timeline, Wii U is nearly 6 million ahead of GC, because GC hadn't even launched yet.  Wii U is in a much better position, with most consumers having not picked up an 8th gen machine and Nintendo having a much bigger software library and time to adapt than when buyers were looking at a Gamecube.

The definition of "saved" is not in the OP.  The definition of "doomed" is in the poll, as in "like Gamecube".  But what qualifies as "not" Gamecube is not clear.

im not using PS2 as a benchmark, that makes no sense. Im using GC, its tracking below it. FACT. Im using cold hard numbers. If Wii U is in a better position then why is it selling worse?