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Forums - Gaming - Which flop makes you sadder: Wii U or Vita?

 

Which flop makes you sadder?

The Wii U. Come on people, buy it! 332 42.29%
 
The Vita. I cried many nights over it. 220 28.03%
 
Neither, they both deserved to flop. 69 8.79%
 
Lol. When can we add the One to the list? 162 20.64%
 
Total:783
MikeRox said:

That said, They really need to look at getting a decent onboard memory SKU out. 128gb onboard memory with the new model would make the argument completely moot. I'm not convinced it would really help sales though.

128 GB onboard flash-memory?

And how much would that model cost?

Most smartphones and tablets with 64 GB cost $200 more than with 8 or 16 GB. Another $60 -$100 for upgrading from 64 to 128 GB.

Even IF Sony should cut these prices in half, a 128-GB Vita would be at least $150 more expensive.

 



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It only costs about $40-50 to put that memory on. The rest is the manufacturers upping their margins and artificially inflating the values of the higher capacity SKUs. It'd be something they could look at instead of a further price drop. I mean Vita is pretty much priced rock bottom now and already costs less than the PSP did for 80% of it's life.

If you can buy a 128gb SD card for £40 at retail (inc 20% tax, retailer cut, wholesale cut and shipping), there's no way it adds $100s to the cost of manufacturing.

Heck even 64gb onboard would make it a much more serious proposition. That said as I mainly buy retail games, my issue is a lack of icon space on the OS rather than capacity even with a "lowly" 32gb card.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Mummelmann said:

The PS3 was a major disappointment, could have been a flop if Sony had made the wrong choices and stayed the course, their aggressive price cuts and massive publisher support was detrimental to their bottom line but paramount to remaining a force on the market to be reckoned with. That's why I can't see any scenario where MS will simply let the One keep on flailing in open water, they will take action just like Sony did in the 7th gen. Nintendo have already taken some action but they have a couple of unique (funnily enough since that's their game) problems today; a terribly aimed product with no real chance of redemption, the one thing that really sets it apart is, by paradox, also the one thing causing them the most harm by far. They have terrible developer support and lack any kind of experience with HD development, causing the vital 1st party titles that need to fill the gaps to be delayed time and time again. They are also losing quite a bit of money which causes two main problems; little to no leverage for significant pricing adjustments and the most overlooked one; they have by far the least return on hardware investments, what they get for the manufacturing cost is less than impressive.
Top that with a management that is deathly afraid of moving away from tradition, small teams and two main platforms to fully support and you have yourself a disaster on hand.

I don't like the word "flop", not one bit, and I tend not to use it. But for expectations, actual grips and the impact of those, overall sales situation, support and future outlooks; it's really, really hard to find any other term that fits the Wii U. I continue to be amazed at those who keep saying that Nintendo are "clearly the ones best fit to lead the industry"; their current presence with a crashing handheld sector and zero understanding of market movements in general and their continued insistence on refusing to adopt standards and tech through the years having bitten them in the proverbial behind in the HD transition, more than ever, quite clearly shows that they are in fact not fit to lead the industry at present.


Yes, One is in a similar position than PS3: it has a price problem. Probably they would have to drop Kinect to create a cheaper SKU, but that is pretty much feasible. They don't have big design failures (it's weaker than PS4, but not that much and can hold it's own in multiplats). 

I think Nintendo screwed it up with Wii U. It is much weaker, but it isn't that much cheaper. PS3 was a US$ 500 machine, 360 was US$ 300 and both selling with big losses, while the Wii was a US$ 250 profitable machine. Now Wii U is at US$ 300 competing with machines costing US$ 400 and 500, with all selling close to price cost. I don't see it as a good project. I think Nintendo could have used similar specs and they would have a decent US$ 400 machine with similar power.

3rd parties wanted to support Wii U. They ported a lot of games, released new ones like AC, CoD and others, but the sales aren't coming. That's because the public that bought these franchises it the PS360 crowd that won't spend US$ 300 to get a new console that does barely better than the older ones. They want the jump to PS4/One where they can see a real difference. Wii U is an upgrade only for the Wii crowd and that market is long gone. Casuals are on tablets and smartphone now. What the Wii U is? A device that can't appeal to the core or the casual crowd, only to Nintend fans, like GameCube did.



MikeRox said:

It only costs about $40-50 to put that memory on. 

If you can buy a 128gb SD card for £40 at retail (inc 20% tax, retailer cut, wholesale cut and shipping), there's no way it adds $100s to the cost of manufacturing

You can't compare the prices of the cheapest SD-Cards to onboard memory. If a SD-card-manufacturer cuts corners and that model has a high failure rate, it doesn't hurt him much. Many cards will not be sent back, even if the failure is in the warranty... the rest he replaces (and the production costs will have sunk meanwhile).

Onboard memory has to be much more reliable, since the whole device has to be replaced, if it fails. And the customers expect higher transfer rates and less latency from onboard flash memory than from memory cards. Sure, these costs are way less than the the upcharges the private end-users have to pay. The last estimate of iSuppli is $30 for 64 GB and $60 for $128 GB onboard NAND flash memory:

But these are only the material costs, some others costs will add such as licensing costs (for used patents) and special taxes. For example, in Germany manufacturers have to pay a fee of €16  for every sold mobile device with a touchscreen and less than 8 GB memory. Mobile devices with a touchscreen and 8 GB or more are taxed with €36... so €20 more additional to the increase in manufacturing costs: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauschalabgabe

So Sony would have to price a 64GB-model at least $60 higher than the model with 0 or 1 GB internal memory, a 128-GB-model at least $90 higher than the model to not increasing their loss for every sold Vita. And even then, they would hurt their accessory sales. A 64-GB-model would probably be sold for $100 more than the 1GB-model, a 128-GB-model for at least $150 more than the 1GB-model... anything less could even hurt their smartphone and tablet prices:

"Why is the price difference between 1GB-Vita and 64GB-Vita only $60, but $200 between 16GB-Xperia Z2 and 64GB-Xperia Z2? It is the same NAND flash memory!" many customers would ask.



I'm on my second Vita since my son dropped the first and cracked the screen. That may be part of the reason Sony changed the screen. I love my Vita, it's an excellent piece of kit and seriously underrated, and as a Playstation Plus member you get heaps of free software for it. In fact, I've got more than I can play and I've never bought any cartridge games except LBP which came with the first one I had.



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Vita, the Wii U was obviously gonna flop, we knew that as soon as they announced it. We also knew about the Xbox One, but it was not obvious at first.



Conina said:

But these are only the material costs, some others costs will add such as licensing costs (for used patents) and special taxes. For example, in Germany manufacturers have to pay a fee of €16  for every sold mobile device with a touchscreen and less than 8 GB memory. Mobile devices with a touchscreen and 8 GB or more are taxed with €36... so €20 more additional to the increase in manufacturing costs: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauschalabgabe

So Sony would have to price a 64GB-model at least $60 higher than the model with 0 or 1 GB internal memory, a 128-GB-model at least $90 higher than the model to not increasing their loss for every sold Vita. And even then, they would hurt their accessory sales. A 64-GB-model would probably be sold for $100 more than the 1GB-model, a 128-GB-model for at least $150 more than the 1GB-model... anything less could even hurt their smartphone and tablet prices:

"Why is the price difference between 1GB-Vita and 64GB-Vita only $60, but $200 between 16GB-Xperia Z2 and 64GB-Xperia Z2? It is the same NAND flash memory!" many customers would ask.


However, they've just stripped out one of the Vita's biggest costs in dropping to LCD while in Europe actually increasing the cost of the system. So when they can get the manufacturing costs down a bit more, it would be perfectly viable to include a decent amount of onboard memory. 

I also don't think many people at all would mention them being the same NAND flash memory. Most customers only know they have onboard memory that lets them save things and the more they have the more they can save.

However, they wouldn't sell the 1gb Vita anymore, it would replace it as the new SKU and they can easily slash the old 1gb Vita stock at a $50 discount whilst clearing out old supplies.

Why is OLED 3G Vita £130 while inferior LCD Vita is £180? Clearing out the previous stock despite OLED screens costing more than LCDs.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Wii U still has the potential to rise back. This year is it's last chance. If after 2014 it still sells badly, then it's over. Tough I have yet to be convinced that Wii U will fail.



carlos710 said:
MikeRox said:
Ultravolt said:

Wii U, since it has so much great games this year, and people are probably going to miss out on them :(


Doesn't the Vita have the better 2014 release schedule? Which so many people are going to also miss out on?

Or do Mario Kart, Smash Bros and Donkey Kong now constitute an generation defining unmissable lineup?


lol wut?


The vita has barely any game releases for 2014, let alone major games.

I will list for you all the games Gamestop currently allows preorders for for Vita and WiiU, as well as what has release so far...

Vita(19 Games Total, 12 Handheld Exclusive) -

Danganronpa,Toukiden, Ragnarok Odyssey ACE, Putty Squad, Lego Movie, FFX/X-2 HD, Deception IV Blood Ties, Dynasty Warriors 8, MLB 14, Lego Hobbit, Conception II, Demon Gaze, God of War Collection, BlazBlue Chrono Phantasma, Sly Cooper Collection, Mind = 0, Borderlands 2, Xblaze Code Embryo, Disgaea 4, Invisimals

WiiU(9 Games Total,3 Console Exclusive)-

Lego Movie, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, Cabela's Big Game Hunter Pro, Amazing Spiderman 2, Lego Hobbit, Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart 8, Transformers Rise of Dark Spark, Watch Dogs.

This isn't even taking into consideration the huge amount og indie titles that Vita will get throughout the year. Not to mention more games revealed for the end of 2014. People should really stop saying VIta isn't being supported....because it is, by more developers than ever supported the PSP. No, it doesn't have the BIG well known IPs but its got totally competent replacements on speed dial, if only people would actually give them a chance. WiiU is being supported just fine by Nintendo, its their failur to get 3rd parties to support it that is hurting it. And the fact its so much weaker than the "Big Two".



      

      

      

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