ghettoglamour said: Vita on the other hand is the best piece of hardware on the handheld market. On normal conditions, the 3DS still might have the edge overall due to its fantastic 1st party titles, but the Vita should follow closely. It just happens that nobody wants it, because of that it gets no support and because of that nobody wants it, and because of that...

The problem with Vita isn't just games, nor the unit price. It's the memory cards. They are expensive as hell and the games are huge. When the 32GB card is more tthan US$ 100 and the games are usually 2 to 3 GB, it's not a sweet deal. PS+ is a big deal, but you have to get a 32GB card to enjoy it.

I think it needs a slight price cut in the unit itself (the LCD model has to be cheaper than the OLED one was), a huge cut on the cards and they would need some games PSP had: GTA, Gran Turismo, God of War and Metal Gear. Even with that it wouldn't come close to PSP levels, but it could do some respectable numbers.

About Wii U, I believe Nintendo should have been quicker with Zelda, Mario Kart and other blockbusters. These games should be at launch. New Super Mario was a bad choice of launch game. It's to similar to what you get on Wii and 3DS. A new Zelda and/or the 3D Mario at launch would be better. And Nintendo needs to restore their relation with 3rd parties and start getting games. They should start some mature franchises and market the console to the older public (I'm not saying to stop marketing it for kids, but they can reach both publics).

For me, both flops are sad. I'm not saying they aren't deserved. But I like the 2 companies and these struggles can impact both. Videogame is a very harsh market to enter. You launch a device and if it isn't a success or if you have a bad project, you are pretty much done for 5 to 7 years. You can't fix mistakes at the middle of a gen (PS3 was fixed, but it's only problem was price, so it was a "minor" design fail. Besides that, they lost a lot of market share before they fixed it).

Well, Wii U and Vita are flops. If one of them finds a miracle and sells 60-70M units then we stop calling it a flop. PS3 was a flop, but after 80M+ we can't call it like that anymore. But it isn't a success since it lost market share and let the competitors gain strength. 

The Wii U is too expensive. It would be ok at this price but with a 500GB hard drive already included.

Why haven't we seen yet Mario 3D world bundles? It's their best (excluding the Zelda remake) game on the system.

Personnaly I am waiting a price drop + Mario 3D world + Mario(s) 2D bundle, at 249€ it would be ideal. Wii U is a decent Nintendo Box with already great Nintendo games, but they have to increase the price attractiveness of the machine. Because for instance now at Amazon.fr:

- Wii U 32GB + 2 marios 2D = 279€ when:

- PS3 500GB + GTA5 = 260€
- PS3 500GB + TLOU + GT6 = 260€
- PS3 500GB + TLOU + AC4 = 249€

Those 2 last PS3 bundles are of incredible value/price.

And Nintendo are surprised Wii U is not selling?

I'm not sure memory cards are as big an issue as is stated here. Most SKUs have a decent enough sized one bundled in. Many EU SKUs have a 16gb card included which for a system with no games that anybody is interested in (or so I keep hearing) should be more than enough to keep the average user going.

You can also get 32gb cards with 8-10 game downloads included for £50-60 now. So I'm not sure if you asked most potentail Vita owners what is holding them back, they'd say memory cards.

That said, They really need to look at getting a decent onboard memory SKU out. 128gb onboard memory with the new model would make the argument completely moot. I'm not convinced it would really help sales though.

Yes, that 1GB onboard memory is a joke. I think a lot of people moved to smartphones. PSP was a media device that played games back then when that was rare and unique. Now, any smartphone does that, so you have to convince people to get one more device. Price cuts will be necessary, but I believe the biggest issue is not having the games that move units. Where is Gran Turismo? Where is GTA? MGS? They could make it. GT is just a matter of developing. GTA? They could make a deal with Rockstar and help funding it. MGS? Same thing.

I don't think the integration with PS4 will move a lot of units, it shoudl just give it a marginal increase. A PS4+Vita bundle could give a big boost, but only if it was cheap, like US$500. So people would grab it just for the deal of a Vita for US$100 (I'm not saying it is possible, but anything more than that won't move units). 

And they need marketing. A lot of it. They have a decent strategy in Japan. EU gets some decent numbers that could be improved if they start trying. NA is more like a tragedy, but it can at least become decent. I'm afraid Sony isn't trying anymore. It found a niche in Japan and they decided to keep it like that and focus on PS4. The remote control is more like a shoot in the dark: if it helps, great, if it don't, just forget it.

Since I actually own a Vita I'll go with Vita.

I think they quickly realised after launch that repeating what they did with the PSP wasn't going to shift units.

I don't doubt that a lot of the PSP audience moved onto smartphones/tablets. Like you say a big draw was, it played videos and music on the go out of the box. Something phones just did not do back in 2004/2005. That probably has taken away a fair whack of what made the PSP appeal as iPods were also nowhere near as cheap as they are now.

They came out the gates with some huge titles however this failed to translate to shifting hardware. The sales of the likes of Tearaway and Killzone in 2013 also kind of show that that demographic just isn't there in big enough meaningful quantities to make pumping AAA game after AAA game out worthwhile.

I think we're really seeing a shift in strategy, luring indies onboard has proven very successful for them. I mean Hotline Miami etc all feel more at home on Vita than any other system.I think they've also done a lot of unannounced behind the scenes work getting content from Japan across to the West even if it is via smaller 3rd parties like XSEED and NISA.

I don't doubt GTA would still have the clout to help the system stand out. But I think they're currently resigned to a slow burning strategy. The hardware is powerful enough fr the long haul and as each game like Danganronpa, Toukiden, Ys etc creeps onto the market. I think they'll eventually get to the point where people will feel there is enough software to bite.

There's actually a lot more high quality Vita exclusive content than you'd ever believe reading the comments on here. It also has by far the best handheld versions of most game genres and a surprisingly diverse line up. It's just been missing 2 things, decent marketing to create awareness (as you say) and also, it's best games are barely known IPs. Again, a Gran Turismo (why this isn't happening I don't know, GT6 should have been cross format) and an exclusive "full experience" GTA could really do wonders, especially if they started packing it in with a $199 system.

I don't think it's going to happen though. I think Vita is going to remain one of those hidden gem systems and I don't doubt it's going to be a cult classic in the future.

The Vita, since I really enjoy the hardware. Playing games on it is a joy. I understand if a Wii U owner feels exactly the same way about their system too.

They both deserve to be in the shitter to be honest.

I feel more sorry for the Vita though because that system has soooooo much potential.

The PS3 was a major disappointment, could have been a flop if Sony had made the wrong choices and stayed the course, their aggressive price cuts and massive publisher support was detrimental to their bottom line but paramount to remaining a force on the market to be reckoned with. That's why I can't see any scenario where MS will simply let the One keep on flailing in open water, they will take action just like Sony did in the 7th gen. Nintendo have already taken some action but they have a couple of unique (funnily enough since that's their game) problems today; a terribly aimed product with no real chance of redemption, the one thing that really sets it apart is, by paradox, also the one thing causing them the most harm by far. They have terrible developer support and lack any kind of experience with HD development, causing the vital 1st party titles that need to fill the gaps to be delayed time and time again. They are also losing quite a bit of money which causes two main problems; little to no leverage for significant pricing adjustments and the most overlooked one; they have by far the least return on hardware investments, what they get for the manufacturing cost is less than impressive.
Top that with a management that is deathly afraid of moving away from tradition, small teams and two main platforms to fully support and you have yourself a disaster on hand.

I don't like the word "flop", not one bit, and I tend not to use it. But for expectations, actual grips and the impact of those, overall sales situation, support and future outlooks; it's really, really hard to find any other term that fits the Wii U. I continue to be amazed at those who keep saying that Nintendo are "clearly the ones best fit to lead the industry"; their current presence with a crashing handheld sector and zero understanding of market movements in general and their continued insistence on refusing to adopt standards and tech through the years having bitten them in the proverbial behind in the HD transition, more than ever, quite clearly shows that they are in fact not fit to lead the industry at present.