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Forums - Gaming - Bayoneta Wii U-PS3

fatslob-:O on 17 February 2014
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

It's best suited to just being a framebuffer ... Why would the CPU need that much bandwidth when it only has a 64 bit wide SIMD engine ?

As for your second account that doesn't matter because GPUs are meant to work on large data sets therefore having more bandwidth is beneficial than lower access times. Despite the fact that the xbox one can cache it's data faster it's still gets thrashed hard by the PS4. 

But it's big enough to have room to spare even after a 1080p frame is stored, and the free space is available to both the CPU and GPU for anything that needs fast memory access.

Basically, you prioritise high speed tasks to the eDRAM, so that the main RAM bandwidth doesn't become an issue as it's primarily used for slower operations.

You need more than just a 1080p frame though ... Did you forget about depth and stencil buffers which are required for z-buffering and shadowing ? 

The only thing that the eDRAM can meaningfully priortise are render targets which are related to framebuffer operations ... Great that'll be enough to saturate the ROPS but how do I solve bandwidth for texturing purposes ? 

Actually you can use it for  more than just framebuffer operations:

"We use the eDRAM in the Wii U for the actual framebuffers, intermediate framebuffer captures, as a fast scratch memory for some CPU intense work and for other GPU memory writes." - Shin'en

We knew that much ... I just said it's best suited to just act as a framebuffer.

Edit: You have anything else to add ?



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AZWification on 17 February 2014
Mummelmann said:
AZWification said:

 " konzoloa"? What the hell  is that? Is that how rednecks spell the word " console"?


It's probably the name of his maid.

I think I've found his maid. He must be so happy with a maid like that.




                
       ---Member of the official Squeezol Fanclub---

curl-6 on 17 February 2014
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

Actually you can use it for  more than just framebuffer operations:

"We use the eDRAM in the Wii U for the actual framebuffers, intermediate framebuffer captures, as a fast scratch memory for some CPU intense work and for other GPU memory writes." - Shin'en

We knew that much ... I just said it's best suited to just act as a framebuffer.

Edit: You have anything else to add ?

It is, but when you've got so much that you can store a double buffered 1080p frame with room to spare, having the rest available to both the CPU and GPU is very helpful.



fatslob-:O on 17 February 2014
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

Actually you can use it for  more than just framebuffer operations:

"We use the eDRAM in the Wii U for the actual framebuffers, intermediate framebuffer captures, as a fast scratch memory for some CPU intense work and for other GPU memory writes." - Shin'en

We knew that much ... I just said it's best suited to just act as a framebuffer.

Edit: You have anything else to add ?

It is, but when you've got so much that you can store a double buffered 1080p frame with room to spare, having the rest available to both the CPU and GPU is very helpful.

So what exactly was our dispute again ?



curl-6 on 17 February 2014
fatslob-:O said:

So what exactly was our dispute again ?

I think it was 360 vs Wii U eDRAM. ;)



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fatslob-:O on 17 February 2014
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

So what exactly was our dispute again ?

I think it was 360 vs Wii U eDRAM. ;)

Oh right ... The 360's eDRAM is still the better implimentation from a rendering point of view perspective.



curl-6 on 17 February 2014
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

So what exactly was our dispute again ?

I think it was 360 vs Wii U eDRAM. ;)

Oh right ... The 360's eDRAM is still the better implimentation from a rendering point of view perspective.

If they were the same size it would be, but 10MB is just too damn small. 3.2 times bigger makes a considerable difference.



fatslob-:O on 17 February 2014
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

So what exactly was our dispute again ?

I think it was 360 vs Wii U eDRAM. ;)

Oh right ... The 360's eDRAM is still the better implimentation from a rendering point of view perspective.

If they were the same size it would be, but 10MB is just too damn small. 3.2 times bigger makes a considerable difference.

On the other hand though I have 8 more ROPs and can solve it with "tiling". Yeah I think we know what the better option is ... Having 8 more ROPs is more important than having 22mb more of eDRAM.



curl-6 on 17 February 2014
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Oh right ... The 360's eDRAM is still the better implimentation from a rendering point of view perspective.

If they were the same size it would be, but 10MB is just too damn small. 3.2 times bigger makes a considerable difference.

On the other hand though I have 8 more ROPs and can solve it with "tiling". Yeah I think we know what the better option is ... Having 8 more ROPs is more important than having 22mb more of eDRAM.

Tiling is not a magical free solution as it takes a performance hit and is less efficient than having sufficient space to begin with. Plus 360 doesn't have the luxury of having spare super-fast eDRAM to use in additional CPU/GPU tasks.

eDRAM is a bottle neck on 360, but not on Wii U.



fatslob-:O on 17 February 2014
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Oh right ... The 360's eDRAM is still the better implimentation from a rendering point of view perspective.

If they were the same size it would be, but 10MB is just too damn small. 3.2 times bigger makes a considerable difference.

On the other hand though I have 8 more ROPs and can solve it with "tiling". Yeah I think we know what the better option is ... Having 8 more ROPs is more important than having 22mb more of eDRAM.

Tiling is not a magical free solution as it takes a performance hit and is less efficient than having sufficient space to begin with. Plus 360 doesn't have the luxury of having spare super-fast eDRAM to use in additional CPU/GPU tasks.

eDRAM is a bottle neck on 360, but not on Wii U.

The performance hit of tiling is small but once it goes past 16 or so tiles it can become problematic but no developers to my knowledge have ever attempted it and most of the time they opted out using 2 or 4 tiles. Why would a CPU be important for the purposes of rendering ? 

You don't know the definition of a "bottleneck" ... A bottleneck is something that limits potential on a system, not holds it back. 10mb of eDRAM is enough as it is for 720p resolutions using a tiling solution. A 720p framebuffer is around 7.3mb. The depth buffer is always of the same size as the framebuffer even when it's multisampled. 10mb of eDRAM is enough for a 720p 2x multisampled framebuffer with the depth buffer and can fit in 3 tiles.

So really when you think about it the xbox 360's solution is aguably better.