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Forums - Gaming - Sniper Elite Dev Explains Xbox One 1080p Difficulties

FlamingWeazel on 10 February 2014
kirby007 said:
FlamingWeazel said:
kirby007 said:
you all miss the keyword "tiling"


Not going to make up a 40% GPU compute diff no amount of magic will,.. Technology is technology it is not magic.

just because you don't have a clue and judge on the raw numbers doesn't mean the rest is magic

edit: not saying it will make up the whatever % in power... but your record is getting stuck

I repeat: Not going to make up a 40% GPU compute diff no amount of magic will,.. Technology is technology it is not magic. Anything else is fluff, no amount of trickery, is going to offset a big GPU advantage like that. If I dont have a clue please explain how they will leverage a SDK or driver updates to make up for a 40% GPU power disadvantage and less memory bandwidth? It will never happen. That is not a tiny advantage they can overcome with a driver update.



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fatslob-:O on 10 February 2014
bucky1965 said:
drkohler said:
bucky1965 said:
fatslob-:O said:
bucky1965 said:

Meaningless statement. A 680gtx has less ROP's than a 580gtx, yet it's a third more powerful.

What a meaningless response ...

You quoted one spec, which is meaningless. A gpu's performance is based on all of its specs and overall design. Individual specs may be higher and may be lower at the same time.

Firstly: It is cool to use words like ROP and TMU and other buzz words, unfortunately you don't seem to know what they mean. As in real life, it is the weakest link that butes you in the ass in the end.

A 680gtx has 32 ROPs (at over 1GHz). This is more than enough to rasterize everything at 1080p/60Hz. Now the question is how many ROPs at what frequency you need to comfortably live at 1080p/60Hz (AMD recommends 32ROPs, by the way). Here is the sad truth for you: 16ROPs just don't cut it. This is the very reason why MS upped the clock frequency in the gpu instead of putting more CU's into their APU (as they discussed this decision without really telling why they went that way when the clock uptick was announced with great fanfare). The XBox One apu has enough compute power, but not enough raster power for a convenient 1080P/60Hz. (yeah, yeah, I hear people screaming "Forza 5! Forza 5!", neglecting to mention just how many clearly visible compromises that game had to implement to get to that goal. And just for the future: Every future game that goes 1080p/60Hz will show the same effect).

Secondly: The new developer kit is much faster. Cool, but it doesn't  run your game faster (unless the former compiler was shit). A faster SDK means that the compiler/assembler is now compiling the code much faster, like a minute instead of three, the linker is now taking only five minutes instead of fifteen to link the whole code bits into an executable. This is very nice for all developers but has no consequence on the fact: There are not enough ROPs for a convenient 1080p/60Hz.


Quoting one spec or a select few is not indicative of a gpu's performance. That was the point I was making. Wasn't saying the X1's gpu is as powerful.

So what ? The point that I was trying to make is that the X1 is limited in pixel fillrate. The only unit that does the blending operations is the ROPS aside from a couple of other special cases such as some tegra and apple chips along with the intel iris pro graphics. Your pointing towards something trivial is mostly pedantic.



Madword on 10 February 2014

I guess the proof will be in the pudding when the games are released. But to be fair, Sniper Elite 2 wasn't the most technical of games, so if it's similar to that, they shouldn't have any problem getting 1080p on both, and this isn't because they've closed the gap, or that they've unlocked the stuff, just that both will probably be set at 1080 and 30FPS locked.

Making an indie game : Dead of Day!

bucky1965 on 10 February 2014
fatslob-:O said:
bucky1965 said:
drkohler said:
bucky1965 said:
fatslob-:O said:
bucky1965 said:

Meaningless statement. A 680gtx has less ROP's than a 580gtx, yet it's a third more powerful.

What a meaningless response ...

You quoted one spec, which is meaningless. A gpu's performance is based on all of its specs and overall design. Individual specs may be higher and may be lower at the same time.

Firstly: It is cool to use words like ROP and TMU and other buzz words, unfortunately you don't seem to know what they mean. As in real life, it is the weakest link that butes you in the ass in the end.

A 680gtx has 32 ROPs (at over 1GHz). This is more than enough to rasterize everything at 1080p/60Hz. Now the question is how many ROPs at what frequency you need to comfortably live at 1080p/60Hz (AMD recommends 32ROPs, by the way). Here is the sad truth for you: 16ROPs just don't cut it. This is the very reason why MS upped the clock frequency in the gpu instead of putting more CU's into their APU (as they discussed this decision without really telling why they went that way when the clock uptick was announced with great fanfare). The XBox One apu has enough compute power, but not enough raster power for a convenient 1080P/60Hz. (yeah, yeah, I hear people screaming "Forza 5! Forza 5!", neglecting to mention just how many clearly visible compromises that game had to implement to get to that goal. And just for the future: Every future game that goes 1080p/60Hz will show the same effect).

Secondly: The new developer kit is much faster. Cool, but it doesn't  run your game faster (unless the former compiler was shit). A faster SDK means that the compiler/assembler is now compiling the code much faster, like a minute instead of three, the linker is now taking only five minutes instead of fifteen to link the whole code bits into an executable. This is very nice for all developers but has no consequence on the fact: There are not enough ROPs for a convenient 1080p/60Hz.


Quoting one spec or a select few is not indicative of a gpu's performance. That was the point I was making. Wasn't saying the X1's gpu is as powerful.

So what ? The point that I was trying to make is that the X1 is limited in pixel fillrate. The only unit that does the blending operations is the ROPS aside from a couple of other special cases such as some tegra and apple chips along with the intel iris pro graphics. Your pointing towards something trivial is mostly pedantic.


I was quoting him not you. Didn't know there was something wrong with that.?.?..



fatslob-:O on 10 February 2014
bucky1965 said:
fatslob-:O said:
bucky1965 said:
drkohler said:
bucky1965 said:
fatslob-:O said:
bucky1965 said:

Meaningless statement. A 680gtx has less ROP's than a 580gtx, yet it's a third more powerful.

What a meaningless response ...

You quoted one spec, which is meaningless. A gpu's performance is based on all of its specs and overall design. Individual specs may be higher and may be lower at the same time.

Firstly: It is cool to use words like ROP and TMU and other buzz words, unfortunately you don't seem to know what they mean. As in real life, it is the weakest link that butes you in the ass in the end.

A 680gtx has 32 ROPs (at over 1GHz). This is more than enough to rasterize everything at 1080p/60Hz. Now the question is how many ROPs at what frequency you need to comfortably live at 1080p/60Hz (AMD recommends 32ROPs, by the way). Here is the sad truth for you: 16ROPs just don't cut it. This is the very reason why MS upped the clock frequency in the gpu instead of putting more CU's into their APU (as they discussed this decision without really telling why they went that way when the clock uptick was announced with great fanfare). The XBox One apu has enough compute power, but not enough raster power for a convenient 1080P/60Hz. (yeah, yeah, I hear people screaming "Forza 5! Forza 5!", neglecting to mention just how many clearly visible compromises that game had to implement to get to that goal. And just for the future: Every future game that goes 1080p/60Hz will show the same effect).

Secondly: The new developer kit is much faster. Cool, but it doesn't  run your game faster (unless the former compiler was shit). A faster SDK means that the compiler/assembler is now compiling the code much faster, like a minute instead of three, the linker is now taking only five minutes instead of fifteen to link the whole code bits into an executable. This is very nice for all developers but has no consequence on the fact: There are not enough ROPs for a convenient 1080p/60Hz.


Quoting one spec or a select few is not indicative of a gpu's performance. That was the point I was making. Wasn't saying the X1's gpu is as powerful.

So what ? The point that I was trying to make is that the X1 is limited in pixel fillrate. The only unit that does the blending operations is the ROPS aside from a couple of other special cases such as some tegra and apple chips along with the intel iris pro graphics. Your pointing towards something trivial is mostly pedantic.


I was quoting him not you. Didn't know there was something wrong with that.?.?..

Your missing the point ...



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Mr Puggsly on 10 February 2014
ethomaz said:

He stated the obvious.... even AnandTech said before Xbone release 32MB eSRAM is not enought to 1080p.... to use 1080p they need to sacrifice others parts because some part of the framebuffer is shared with slow DDR3.

The dev needs to manage which information will be in the fast eSRAM and which will be in the lose DDR3.

On PS4 you don't have this trouble... so you are open just to work with the hardware without sacrifices.


Well to achieve 1080p it appears sacrfices are made on both X1 and PS4. It seems most games running at 1080p on PS4 rarely achieve 60 fps. The game 1886 is using bars for better AA and running at 30 fps.

PS4 definitiely the more powerful of the two, but its clear 1080p is very taxing on resources.



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drkohler on 10 February 2014
kirby007 said:
you all miss the keyword "tiling"

And, hopefully, this buzzword is not the next wave of "we found the wholy saviour" threads. It is utterly irrelevant in the discussion.



TheSting on 10 February 2014
J_Allard said:
FlamingWeazel said:
J_Allard said:

Gee golly I don't know who to believe, an actual developer working on the machines, or you.

Can I see some of the games you have developed? I have played many of the games this guy's studio has worked on. Just for a frame of reference, I mean. You seem so sure you know more about this stuff than someone actually working on the consoles is all.

Numerous developers have said the opposite...but you believe this one how convenient..

 

The power gap is there period,. it's technology not fairy dust, a SDK is not going to make a GPU 40% more powerfull. The proof is already there we know the specs of each box.

Just to correct you on some spots:

1. Where did I say I believed him? I am simply asking for your credentials to be so easily dismissing what an actual developer is saying as "FUD". To say that, you need to come armed with something a little stronger than "oh well um yea some developers said the opposite!!". What developers? When? What did they says?

2. The guy admits there is going to be a power gap. You have apparently conditioned yourself to just ignore any text that doesn't say there is a huge generational leap or something. It's funny, but not really healthy for discussion. You spread the same FUD in other threads, making it seem as if anyone here who likes the Xbone has this strange delusional idea that there isn't a power gap.

Hope those helped.

Truth and lol especially 2



binary solo on 10 February 2014
ethomaz said:

He stated the obvious.... even AnandTech said before Xbone release 32MB eSRAM is not enought to 1080p.... to use 1080p they need to sacrifice others parts because some part of the framebuffer is shared with slow DDR3.

The dev needs to manage which information will be in the fast eSRAM and which will be in the lose DDR3.

On PS4 you don't have this trouble... so you are open just to work with the hardware without sacrifices.

There will always be sacrifices because of hardware limitations. The Order is 1080p @30fps. If Ready at Dawn could get the game to perform at 1080p @60fps without sacrificing their over all vision for the game they would. They had to coompromise somewhere and they decided fps was the most acceptable compromise.

I think it's pretty clear that hardware on both consoles isn't capable of 1080p @60fps on any and all games. Some games will hit that mark by having less going on on screen. But I think many developers would rather sacrifice one of those parameters for elements they consider to be more important, like Team Ninja's soft body physics, aka more lifelike boobies.



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blessedswine on 10 February 2014

http://geeknizer.com/xbox-one-vs-ps4-gpu/ this is from a gentleman who is a Independent software Entrepreneur and software developer at premier Fortune 20 company. Full time Geek. he compares the numbers between the two gpus