kowenicki said:

Ever heard the expression "pissing in the wind"

I'd leave it if I was you.  This is a road I have been down many times with him. There is never any evidence.

kowenicki said:

Give me a full list and breakdown of all the offical numbers which show the US is undeniably as you say it is. I wont hold my breath a carl already asked you.

They said sold thought... so yeap... to consumers... they are using NPD, GFK and others trackers.

binary solo said:

No, "sold" means shipped (or sold to retailers) unless they actually say "sold to consumers" or words to that effect. How can Sony use NPD for December figures merely days into the new year? NPD doesn't even know NPD numbers for December that early on, at least not with enough certainty for them to give Sony the number and for Sony to be able to use it for PR.

kowenicki said:

It would have been easier iof you had just said "I havent go the information"

Look nobody (me, Carl or anybody else) is in denial about anything... we simply dont know.  You suy you do know and have the evidence and yet repeatedly refuse to show it.  You are lying again.  You dont have the evidence.

I agree "Sold" = Shipped but...

*1 Number of retail sales to consumers is estimated by SCEI.

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/140108a_e.html

I'm saying they said "Sold Through" this time that means comsumers.

PS. NPD have estimates for every week... just because the "public" is just released the second thursday of every month didn't mean they didn't give weekly estimates to their consumers (the companies)... even so sometimes NPD releases some public notes about the sales in the middle of the current month.

kowenicki said:

No... once again... it will show if your guess and hopes are correct, they may be.  What you are lying about is having evidence... arent you?

Yes or no will do.

But of course if its "no" then I expect the evidence too.

Unless of course you have evidence you cant show... now why would that be?

binary solo said:

Ok I stand corrected, that's the first time I've seen sold through. However the footnote does still say it's an estimate. So I think on that basis people are making way too big of a deal about 4.1 million vs 4.2 million. Let that one rest I say.

kowenicki said:

so you dont have it.  finally we have an answer.

finally you admit it you have no concrete evidence.

AFAIK Sony never said it was 4.2 million to consumers. Unless they say "sold to consumers" then sold means shipped, and even in this environment of tight supply there is no way 4.2 million shipped on X date = 4.2 million in consumer hands on X date. There is always product in the retail channel. So if anything I think 4.1 is possibly a tad on the high side, given 100K distributed across 53 markets is a very small number indeed. If someone has Sony saying 4.2 million sold to consumers then it's a different story. However in terms of VGC USA vs actual, even if 4.2 million globally is correct how much of that alleged missing 100K is USA? Boils down to VGC and NPD having at most a 100K discrepancy, and probably less, which in the month of December amounts to about 12% of total sales. Given NPD isn't 100% accurate (but likely more accurate than VGC) a 12% difference between VGC and NPD for PS4 is not even worth a second thought. I'll worry about VGC being out when the difference is over 20%.

So for Xb one to be considerably lower than PS4 in the USA, NPD sales for Xb one will have to be a lot lower than VGC, there just isn't room to move for PS4. Actually PS4 supply problems makes VGC's PS4 job quite easy. The harder job is Xb one because it is less supply constrained. I can believe that VGC could be significantly over-estimating Xb one sales, after all VGC does have off months with the USA for every platform from time to time. And I expect launch year December is a hard one to estimate unless there is strong evidence of widespread supply constraints (like PS4). But VGC could have underestimated Xb one sales too. We'll see I guess.