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disolitude said:
SvennoJ said:

There is no 1:1 mapping when scaling 900p or 720p to 1080p. You can have 1:1 mapping when scaling 720p to 1440p or 2160p, but otherwise you're stuck with 2 pixels for every 3 pixels on your tv. It looks better when your console upscales the render resolution since the HUD information is usually put on top in 1080p. Console scaler isn't always better, it depends on the tv. My projector did a bettter job at upscaling Alan Wake and Forza Horizon than the 360, so I left the console output in 720p.

I prefer 1080p on pc with less or no AA over 720p with copious amounts of AA. I rather have a sharp picture with some aliasing artifacts then the softness of upscaled dvd quality.

While you are arguing the opposite by saying that your projector is left to do the scaling, all I am saying here is is that that you have to let your console scale the image and enable the display to "just scan" or "no overscan". That way things are mapped 1:1 and the image doesn't resize itself again due to overscan. That should produce the best results IMO but I guess some projectors are miracle workers. :)  

Otherwise I'm surprised somepne using projector would say they want 1080p with less AA (and lower frame rate?). DLP projectors hide resolution loss much better than LCD screens, thanks to their "puffy" pixels and your detail loss should be minimal at 720p with AA.

Letting the 360 scale the image produced a blurrier end result then letting the projector do the upscaling. I use a Panasonic PT-AE1000U, which does a great job at hiding the screendoor effect of LCD. A native 1080p picture with no AA looks a lot better then the softness of upscaled anti aliased 720p.

If you buy a high end display it's not so strange to get a better scaler then the one in a console. For any mid range tv, as long as it supports native or dot by dot mode, I guess the scaler in the console is fine. (Apart from the sharpening filter and gamma adjustments in the XB1 scaler...)

How can it hide resolution loss? The detail isn't there, the only thing you can do is add a sharpening filter but that always looks like crap. A 720p picture looks fine anyway, but switching to 1080p makes a huge difference.



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Well, let's get serious about this issue, and truthful. The only ones downplaying 1080p are Nintendo fans and Xbox fans. Of course, before the release of their favored console, they were singing a different tune.

Before the Wii U released and we were speculating on the power, several Nintendo fans were saying the Wii U would be able to pull off PS3 visuals, but in 1080p. Well, after launch we realized it could handle PS3 graphics, but certainly not the best ones at 1080p. Now, 1080p doesn't matter.

 Before Xbox One was released, Xbox fans joined in in mocking the Wii U for not pulling off 1080p on most games. Even when we started getting rumors that games would have slightly gimped visuals + lower resolutions, many denied it, stating the One could definitely handle that kind of graphical output. Now the Xbox One is released and games aren't up to snuff with their PS4 counterparts, 1080p doesn't matter.

Of course, many also fall back on the "720p games are still fun" stance. While this is 100% true, we are in next gen, so 1080p should be the standard, not the exception. 720p was last gens standard, so I wish to greatly advance in what my console can pull off, not take a couple of steps forward. Besides, I want to use my 1080p tv to its fullest potential, while having loads of fun.



thismeintiel said:

Well, let's get serious about this issue, and truthful. The only ones downplaying 1080p are Nintendo fans and Xbox fans. Of course, before the release of their favored console, they were singing a different tune.

Before the Wii U released and we were speculating on the power, several Nintendo fans were saying the Wii U would be able to pull off PS3 visuals, but in 1080p. Well, after launch we realized it could handle PS3 graphics, but certainly not the best ones at 1080p. Now, 1080p doesn't matter.

 Before Xbox One was released, Xbox fans joined in in mocking the Wii U for not pulling off 1080p on most games. Even when we started getting rumors that games would have slightly gimped visuals + lower resolutions, many denied it, stating the One could definitely handle that kind of graphical output. Now the Xbox One is released and games aren't up to snuff with their PS4 counterparts, 1080p doesn't matter.

Of course, many also fall back on the "720p games are still fun" stance. While this is 100% true, we are in next gen, so 1080p should be the standard, not the exception. 720p was last gens standard, so I wish to greatly advance in what my console can pull off, not take a couple of steps forward. Besides, I want to use my 1080p tv to its fullest potential, while having loads of fun.


Or maybe the ones blowing it out of proportion are Playstation 4 fans?  I mean, ask the average guy on the street about 1080p and 720p and their reply will probably be "What?".



SvennoJ said:
disolitude said:
elazz said:
When I put the settings on my pc to 900p or 1080p I already see a huge difference. Let alone 720p - 1080p. Even on a big television you clearly feel the difference. If you play CoD ghosts for a while on xbox one and afterwards playing on PS4 the difference is immense and I actually think that this factor alone can already define your purchase

Your PC monitor doesn't have a scaler and 900p does not upscale to 1080p properly hence why it looks like ass. A good scaler is needed to make 900p or 720p map 1:1 to pixels on a TV that has 1080 lines.

Truth on the matter 720p vs 1080p is just one part of the story, expecially when its upscaled with a good scaler like these consoles have at their disposal. Most PC gamers know that 720p with copious amounts of AA and a higher frame rate kicks the crap out of standalone "1080p" without AA and lower frame rate...when it comes to visual fidelity.

There is no 1:1 mapping when scaling 900p or 720p to 1080p. You can have 1:1 mapping when scaling 720p to 1440p or 2160p, but otherwise you're stuck with 2 pixels for every 3 pixels on your tv. It looks better when your console upscales the render resolution since the HUD information is usually put on top in 1080p. Console scaler isn't always better, it depends on the tv. My projector did a bettter job at upscaling Alan Wake and Forza Horizon than the 360, so I left the console output in 720p.

I prefer 1080p on pc with less or no AA over 720p with copious amounts of AA. I rather have a sharp picture with some aliasing artifacts then the softness of upscaled dvd quality.

Amen!  Most people (Including game studioes) just don't get that.  BF4 should not be in 900p with x4 MSAA on PS4.  Just put it in 1080p with 2x or no MSAA!



d21lewis said:
thismeintiel said:

Well, let's get serious about this issue, and truthful. The only ones downplaying 1080p are Nintendo fans and Xbox fans. Of course, before the release of their favored console, they were singing a different tune.

Before the Wii U released and we were speculating on the power, several Nintendo fans were saying the Wii U would be able to pull off PS3 visuals, but in 1080p. Well, after launch we realized it could handle PS3 graphics, but certainly not the best ones at 1080p. Now, 1080p doesn't matter.

 Before Xbox One was released, Xbox fans joined in in mocking the Wii U for not pulling off 1080p on most games. Even when we started getting rumors that games would have slightly gimped visuals + lower resolutions, many denied it, stating the One could definitely handle that kind of graphical output. Now the Xbox One is released and games aren't up to snuff with their PS4 counterparts, 1080p doesn't matter.

Of course, many also fall back on the "720p games are still fun" stance. While this is 100% true, we are in next gen, so 1080p should be the standard, not the exception. 720p was last gens standard, so I wish to greatly advance in what my console can pull off, not take a couple of steps forward. Besides, I want to use my 1080p tv to its fullest potential, while having loads of fun.


Or maybe the ones blowing it out of proportion are Playstation 4 fans?  I mean, ask the average guy on the street about 1080p and 720p and their reply will probably be "What?".


Sorry but Im with him on this. Back when some of us thought the Wii U would have a Power 7 CPU (smh) many Wii Fans were talking about 1080p and how great Nintendo games would look in full HD. Nintendo fans were looking forward to 1080p on NSMBU for example,  given that it was obviously  (Wii game assets/ 2D gameplay) going to be full HD. When that fell flat it "didnt matter" anymore.

I dont think anyone expected the Wii U or even the X1 to stick to 720p at the time. And as someone else pointed out within 4 to 8 years when 4 and 8K TVs will start becoming mainstream 720p will not be a pretty sight. Kind of like Wii games on FullHD TVs today. Bareable? Yes. Ideal? No.



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

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SubiyaCryolite said:


Sorry but Im with him on this. Back when some of us thought the Wii U would have a Power 7 CPU (smh) many Wii Fans were talking about 1080p and how great Nintendo games would look in full HD. Nintendo fans were looking forward to 1080p on NSMBU for example,  given that it was obviously  (Wii game assets/ 2D gameplay) going to be full HD. When that fell flat it "didnt matter" anymore.

I dont think anyone expected the Wii U or even the X1 to stick to 720p at the time. And as someone else pointed out within 4 to 8 years when 4 and 8K TVs will start becoming mainstream 720p will not be a pretty sight. Kind of like Wii games on FullHD TVs today. Bareable? Yes. Ideal? No.


You're dead to me.

 

 

 

 

Just kidding.  Hey, I know my opinion is nothing more than my opinion.  Certain things are important to people and not as important to others.  Who am I to judge?  I contemplated buying a new console today and I refrained.  In all honesty, despite being more interested in  what the Xbox One offers at the moment, I was probably going to buy a PS4.  I just decided to hold off until Tomb Raider comes out.  My biggest objection with thismeintiel's comment was that he feels that we're downplaying 1080p just because it's an area PS4 is stronger in.  That may actually be the case for some but it isn't for me.  Well, maybe subconsciously it is.  

I watched a video from the Angry Video Game Nerd a year ago and I can't forget it.  It was about the Super Nes vs the Genesis.  He spoke about how he had this friend that liked some sort of chocolate milk and he liked another.  His friend's milk had more Vitamin D so every time they met his friend would be like "Hey, love that Vitamin D!" because that was an area his milk was better in.  As gamers, we're good at doing that.  We find that one big thing our console does (In the Genesis vs Super Nes debate, the Genesis had the faster "Blast" processing speed) and we throw it in our competition's face.  For me, 1080p is definitely one of those things the PS4 does better but damn, I will openly admit that this time, the PS4 does virtually EVERYTHING better than Microsoft and Nintendo!  And I'm not opposed to 1080p at all.  I re-purchased some movies on Blu Ray just for the HD experience.  I still think that 1080p is great (every device I own is set for that--even if they don't support it natively.  Of course I want the best!) but not the big deal some make it out to be.  But, that's just me.  I sometimes try to speak for the average person but I guess I need to humble myself a bit.



d21lewis said:
thismeintiel said:

Well, let's get serious about this issue, and truthful. The only ones downplaying 1080p are Nintendo fans and Xbox fans. Of course, before the release of their favored console, they were singing a different tune.

Before the Wii U released and we were speculating on the power, several Nintendo fans were saying the Wii U would be able to pull off PS3 visuals, but in 1080p. Well, after launch we realized it could handle PS3 graphics, but certainly not the best ones at 1080p. Now, 1080p doesn't matter.

 Before Xbox One was released, Xbox fans joined in in mocking the Wii U for not pulling off 1080p on most games. Even when we started getting rumors that games would have slightly gimped visuals + lower resolutions, many denied it, stating the One could definitely handle that kind of graphical output. Now the Xbox One is released and games aren't up to snuff with their PS4 counterparts, 1080p doesn't matter.

Of course, many also fall back on the "720p games are still fun" stance. While this is 100% true, we are in next gen, so 1080p should be the standard, not the exception. 720p was last gens standard, so I wish to greatly advance in what my console can pull off, not take a couple of steps forward. Besides, I want to use my 1080p tv to its fullest potential, while having loads of fun.


Or maybe the ones blowing it out of proportion are Playstation 4 fans?  I mean, ask the average guy on the street about 1080p and 720p and their reply will probably be "What?".

I don't really see how that answers any point he made.

Ask an average guy on the street what is better, a PS2 or an Atari Jaguar, I'm sure he'll have a similar response. We're not average guys on the street, we're gamers.



For me, 1080p is definitely one of those things the PS4 does better but damn, I will openly admit that this time, the PS4 does virtually EVERYTHING better than Microsoft and Nintendo!

That's kind of the thing, contrary to last gen and previous gens, there isn't really ANY area XBone is superior in as far as core gaming goes.

You may like some exclusives that MS buys or develops, but those would simply look and play BETTER if MS just sold a Sony PS4 with an XBox label slapped on the outside.
PS4 x-platforms will look better and exclusives will definitely look better than equivalent efforts on XBone (although given the nature of exclusives, 1:1 comparisons are impossible).
All that and $100 less.

Basically the only advantage for XBone is it's 'TV features' and Kinect, the voice side of which PS4 also does and the video side of which PS4 offers SOME parity with the camera.
(PS4 also offers 6axis and touchpad as further auxiliary controls)
And as far as TV features go, PS4 may potentially catch up very close there, given it should be able control and communicate with other devices via HDMI CEC.
(and Sony very well may release an HDMI-in / DVR attachment for PS4 perhaps surpassing XBone's functionality there)
I'm just unconvinced at that making a major difference, because the main people interested in either of these ARE gamers, that's why we are discussing this on a gaming site.
People interested in 'casual' entertainment or TV will probably not choose the most expensive option, but will go for Wii for cheap gaming and Roku/AppleTV/etc for TV stuff.
(the latter without paying an extra fee for XBox Live Gold in order to browse the internet and use services like Netflix that they already pay for separately)
Incidentally, the XBone can't even access BBC's iPlayer software, because putting it behind a paywall as is MS' policy, violates the BBC's policy for access to it's content...
So the XBone doesn't even come off as the 'best TV experience' in the UK, not to mention other markets where it isn't well integrated into local channels, etc.



d21lewis said:
thismeintiel said:

Well, let's get serious about this issue, and truthful. The only ones downplaying 1080p are Nintendo fans and Xbox fans. Of course, before the release of their favored console, they were singing a different tune.

Before the Wii U released and we were speculating on the power, several Nintendo fans were saying the Wii U would be able to pull off PS3 visuals, but in 1080p. Well, after launch we realized it could handle PS3 graphics, but certainly not the best ones at 1080p. Now, 1080p doesn't matter.

 Before Xbox One was released, Xbox fans joined in in mocking the Wii U for not pulling off 1080p on most games. Even when we started getting rumors that games would have slightly gimped visuals + lower resolutions, many denied it, stating the One could definitely handle that kind of graphical output. Now the Xbox One is released and games aren't up to snuff with their PS4 counterparts, 1080p doesn't matter.

Of course, many also fall back on the "720p games are still fun" stance. While this is 100% true, we are in next gen, so 1080p should be the standard, not the exception. 720p was last gens standard, so I wish to greatly advance in what my console can pull off, not take a couple of steps forward. Besides, I want to use my 1080p tv to its fullest potential, while having loads of fun.


Or maybe the ones blowing it out of proportion are Playstation 4 fans?  I mean, ask the average guy on the street about 1080p and 720p and their reply will probably be "What?".

As others pointed out, we aren't the average guy.  And that goes for diehard gamers that don't always frequent boards, too.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying 720p makes your game complete shit, cause it doesn't.  It's just that we are moving on to a new gen, and gamers want a leap in power, not a step or two.  More of a slightly forward sidestep for the Wii U.

I do have to say it is more forgivable with the Wii U, since they are asking $299 (close to the price of a PS3 when the Wii U launched) and you get the tablet controller.  On the Xbox One, it is inexcusable.  You are already paying $100 extra for the Kinect, but to actually pay the same amount for such inferior HW is insulting, IMO.  Plus, the amount of people downplaying 1080p has gotten ridiculous.  It's not like if their console of choice could pull it off, while still outputing better visuals than the competition, they wouldn't be screaming its praises from the hilltops.

Edit:  Oh, and I'm not saying ALL fans are doing it. 



brendude13 said:

I don't really see how that answers any point he made.

Ask an average guy on the street what is better, a PS2 or an Atari Jaguar, I'm sure he'll have a similar response. We're not average guys on the street, we're gamers.

For some reason, this reminds me of Bane telling Batman that his tricks only work on the uninitiated....and we are both initiated.  So, in a way, I think you're calling me Batman.  Thanks for that.  

Oh, and I elaborated a bit further down.  It was just that first line that got me because...well fuck.  Technically, I am a Nintendo fan and an Xbox fan.  I guess he was right!