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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo is completely out of touch with reality.

EdHieron on 09 December 2013
curl-6 said:
EdHieron said:
curl-6 said:
EdHieron said:

Funny how tonight's History Channel movie "Bonnie and Clyde" is going to have as much of all of that as television allows yet it's aimed squarely at adults.  Oh, yeah and the last time I checked you're supposed to be 18 to read Playboy.

Video games featuring these things are not the same. They do not have one iota of the maturity of Bonnie and Clyde. They're not targeting adults, (at least most aren't) they're targeting teenagers who want to be adults.

 

Well that's the direction that they should be heading in if Video Games ever want to mature as an artform and not being locked in the nursery room of the types of video games that Nintendo pushes out Gen after Gen.  At least studios like Naughty Dog, Bethesda, Rockstar and others are trying to push gaming in a mature direction.  And if you ever look at the works of literature and film that are supposed to be the most mature they're all full of sex, violence, and four letter words eg. Edgar Allan Poe, William Burroughs, Chuck Palaniuk, Brett Easton Ellis, and  the Marquis De Sade. 

And since when have teenagers ever respected age limits? Drinking, smoking, porn, violent movies and video games, kids explore these things well before society decides they are ready for them. The gaming industry exploits this.

It's not the Game Industry's fault or even place obviously, if the lazy, no - nothing parents would work harder at keeping these things away from their kids until they're supposed to be mature enough to handle them, then maybe their kids would tuirn out better. 

More "adult" does not = better. Many great, classic films and books are child friendly.

For the most part, the companies that make today's "core" games are pushing gaming towards adolescence, not maturity.


Some are but definitely not all or even most.  And even films and books that are considered today to be child friendly were considered edgy and adult in their day eg.  Universal's Classic Horror Movies used to make grown women flee the theater in terror when Bela Lugosi first appeared on the screen or the atheistic books of Mary Shelley, Jules Verne, or H. G. Welles.  On the other hand in their entire library of games Nintendo dosn't have anything that they promote heavily that wouldn't be considered child friendly.

No.  They're really not. The stories and themes in Half-Life,  Fallout 3 and The works of Suda 51 and Hideo Kojima can hold their ground with edgy and adult graphic novels like Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and Alan Moore's "Watchmen".  The "Tomb Raider" and "Uncharted" games can hold their ground as adult and edgy works with the greatest adventure novels of Michael Crichton and Talbot Mundy, "Alan Wake," "The Last of Us", and "Bioshock" can hold their own with the edgiest and more adult horror novels like those of Stephen King and Clive Barker, and the stories in Grand Theft Auto games are certainly comparable to those in the most adult and edgiest crime fiction ie. the tale of Nico Bellic is certainly comparable to that in the film "Eastern Promises."  



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curl-6 on 09 December 2013
EdHieron said:

Some are but definitely not all or even most.  And even films and books that are considered today to be child friendly were considered edgy and adult in their day eg.  Universal's Classic Horror Movies used to make grown women flee the theater in terror when Bela Lugosi first appeared on the screen or the atheistic books of Mary Shelley, Jules Verne, or H. G. Welles.  On the other hand in their entire library of games Nintendo dosn't have anything that they promote heavily that wouldn't be considered child friendly.

No.  They're really not. The stories and themes in Half-Life,  Fallout 3 and The works of Suda 51 and Hideo Kojima can hold their ground with edgy and adult graphic novels like Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and Alan Moore's "Watchmen".  The "Tomb Raider" and "Uncharted" games can hold their ground as adult and edgy works with the greatest adventure novels of Michael Crichton and Talbot Mundy, "Alan Wake," "The Last of Us", and "Bioshock" can hold their own with the edgiest and more adult horror novels like those of Stephen King and Clive Barker, and the stories in Grand Theft Auto games are certainly comparable to those in the most adult and edgiest crime fiction ie. the tale of Nico Bellic is certainly comparable to that in the film "Eastern Promises."  

Films like Wizard of Oz, Toy Story, Spirited Away, Beauty and the Beast, and The Lion King are no less brilliant for being family friendly.

And with the exception of Bioshock, those games would be laughed at if they were films or literature.

But the bottom line is, gaming isn't film or literature. Nor should it be. Its strength is its differences, not its similarities, to those mediums. When developers  try to be like movies, they diminish what makes gaming unique and great.



ninetailschris on 09 December 2013
curl-6 said:
EdHieron said:

Some are but definitely not all or even most.  And even films and books that are considered today to be child friendly were considered edgy and adult in their day eg.  Universal's Classic Horror Movies used to make grown women flee the theater in terror when Bela Lugosi first appeared on the screen or the atheistic books of Mary Shelley, Jules Verne, or H. G. Welles.  On the other hand in their entire library of games Nintendo dosn't have anything that they promote heavily that wouldn't be considered child friendly.

No.  They're really not. The stories and themes in Half-Life,  Fallout 3 and The works of Suda 51 and Hideo Kojima can hold their ground with edgy and adult graphic novels like Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and Alan Moore's "Watchmen".  The "Tomb Raider" and "Uncharted" games can hold their ground as adult and edgy works with the greatest adventure novels of Michael Crichton and Talbot Mundy, "Alan Wake," "The Last of Us", and "Bioshock" can hold their own with the edgiest and more adult horror novels like those of Stephen King and Clive Barker, and the stories in Grand Theft Auto games are certainly comparable to those in the most adult and edgiest crime fiction ie. the tale of Nico Bellic is certainly comparable to that in the film "Eastern Promises."  

Films like Wizard of Oz, Toy Story, Spirited Away, Beauty and the Beast, and The Lion King are no less brilliant for being family friendly.

And with the exception of Bioshock, those games would be laughed at if they were films or literature.

But the bottom line is, gaming isn't film or literature. Nor should it be. Its strength is its differences, not its similarities, to those mediums. When developers  try to be like movies, they diminish what makes gaming unique and great.


Not going to lie him trying to compare great movies to those game in the story department really hurt his point.

last of us is only considered good because on average all video game stories are sub-par. Last of Us wouldn't get a 70 on metacritic in the movie department.



"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen"  ~ max

Hynad on 09 December 2013
ninetailschris said:
curl-6 said:
EdHieron said:

Some are but definitely not all or even most.  And even films and books that are considered today to be child friendly were considered edgy and adult in their day eg.  Universal's Classic Horror Movies used to make grown women flee the theater in terror when Bela Lugosi first appeared on the screen or the atheistic books of Mary Shelley, Jules Verne, or H. G. Welles.  On the other hand in their entire library of games Nintendo dosn't have anything that they promote heavily that wouldn't be considered child friendly.

No.  They're really not. The stories and themes in Half-Life,  Fallout 3 and The works of Suda 51 and Hideo Kojima can hold their ground with edgy and adult graphic novels like Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and Alan Moore's "Watchmen".  The "Tomb Raider" and "Uncharted" games can hold their ground as adult and edgy works with the greatest adventure novels of Michael Crichton and Talbot Mundy, "Alan Wake," "The Last of Us", and "Bioshock" can hold their own with the edgiest and more adult horror novels like those of Stephen King and Clive Barker, and the stories in Grand Theft Auto games are certainly comparable to those in the most adult and edgiest crime fiction ie. the tale of Nico Bellic is certainly comparable to that in the film "Eastern Promises."  

Films like Wizard of Oz, Toy Story, Spirited Away, Beauty and the Beast, and The Lion King are no less brilliant for being family friendly.

And with the exception of Bioshock, those games would be laughed at if they were films or literature.

But the bottom line is, gaming isn't film or literature. Nor should it be. Its strength is its differences, not its similarities, to those mediums. When developers  try to be like movies, they diminish what makes gaming unique and great.


Not going to lie him trying to compare great movies to those game in the story department really hurt his point.

last of us is only considered good because on average all video game stories are sub-par. Last of Us wouldn't get a 70 on metacritic in the movie department.

Of course. Because you say so. As usual. ¬_¬

The story in The Last of Us isn't the most original of all time. Not unlike most stories in the movie industry in recent years. Its storytelling on the other hand, holds its own very well against even the best from the movie industry. 



EdHieron on 09 December 2013

If you really want gaming to mature into an art form that is respected by the likes of Great Critics like the Late, Great Roger Ebert you will respect those developers that, unlike Nintendo, are trying to push gaming into a mature direction rather than knock their works in favor of a company like Nintendo that only wants to keep gaming as a children's toy aimed at pre-teens.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsbeQeiwW9o

 

 



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curl-6 on 09 December 2013
Hynad said:
ninetailschris said:
curl-6 said:
EdHieron said:

Some are but definitely not all or even most.  And even films and books that are considered today to be child friendly were considered edgy and adult in their day eg.  Universal's Classic Horror Movies used to make grown women flee the theater in terror when Bela Lugosi first appeared on the screen or the atheistic books of Mary Shelley, Jules Verne, or H. G. Welles.  On the other hand in their entire library of games Nintendo dosn't have anything that they promote heavily that wouldn't be considered child friendly.

No.  They're really not. The stories and themes in Half-Life,  Fallout 3 and The works of Suda 51 and Hideo Kojima can hold their ground with edgy and adult graphic novels like Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and Alan Moore's "Watchmen".  The "Tomb Raider" and "Uncharted" games can hold their ground as adult and edgy works with the greatest adventure novels of Michael Crichton and Talbot Mundy, "Alan Wake," "The Last of Us", and "Bioshock" can hold their own with the edgiest and more adult horror novels like those of Stephen King and Clive Barker, and the stories in Grand Theft Auto games are certainly comparable to those in the most adult and edgiest crime fiction ie. the tale of Nico Bellic is certainly comparable to that in the film "Eastern Promises."  

Films like Wizard of Oz, Toy Story, Spirited Away, Beauty and the Beast, and The Lion King are no less brilliant for being family friendly.

And with the exception of Bioshock, those games would be laughed at if they were films or literature.

But the bottom line is, gaming isn't film or literature. Nor should it be. Its strength is its differences, not its similarities, to those mediums. When developers  try to be like movies, they diminish what makes gaming unique and great.


Not going to lie him trying to compare great movies to those game in the story department really hurt his point.

last of us is only considered good because on average all video game stories are sub-par. Last of Us wouldn't get a 70 on metacritic in the movie department.

Of course. Because you say so. As usual. ¬_¬

The story in The Last of Us isn't the most original of all time. Not unlike most stories in the movie industry in recent years. Its storytelling on the other hand, holds its own very well against even the best from the movie industry. 

I'd have to strongly disagree.

For a game, TLOU has stellar storytelling. But next to the likes of Citizen Kane, or Schindler's List? Not even the same ballpark.



oniyide on 09 December 2013
curl-6 said:
oniyide said:
curl-6 said:
oniyide said:

THats a bunch of crap and you know it. LMAO your not even trying. PS4 AND Xbone had much better launches than Wii U. They cant even keep these systems on the shelves. THe preorder numbers speak for themselves, theres like one or two Wii U games in the charts. Unless you have some other reason why people are rushing out to buy these systems im going to call BS

dynamic environments? you mean being launched into the background? that doesnt change anything you just went from one platform to another, hell you barely have any control with the barrel parts.

It's not crap. Ryse, Killzone et al are not exactly being held up as instant classics. Your argument was we should expect better games than the pre-existing all-time greats of the genre before we buy. Where are the PS4/Xbone games that are the new absolute best in history within their genre?

No, I mean the way the environment shifts, breaks apart, morphs as you travel through it. The SNES games did not have this. It changes things significantly..

Please the systems JUST came out. We already know that launch games are not going to be great, and no im not expecting them to be better but that cant be noticible worst and thats the vibe im getting from NSMB series, so why waste my money?

No it doesnt, thats more of an aesthitic thing and simply moving platforms around that has been done in numerous games before. Its not like the player has direct control over those elements.

Your argument that only the best games in a genre are worth buying doesn't make sense though; that restricts buyers to about 30 games EVER.

And the breaking, shifting levels are absolutely not just aesthetic as it is the traversible parts that transform, and very often in response to the player's movement and interaction.

No that was never my argument, you are trying to put words in my month. My argument was about the 2d Mario SERIES not the whole damn genre that makes little sense as not every game in the genre plays the same. Sonic is different from Rayman from LBP from Kirby and so on.  The NSMB series is not as good as the older Mario games which is why i skipped them. THere is no point for me to buy new games in a SERIES when said games are getting worst. Its no different than someone skipping say COD.



Hynad on 09 December 2013
curl-6 said:
Hynad said:
ninetailschris said:

Not going to lie him trying to compare great movies to those game in the story department really hurt his point.

last of us is only considered good because on average all video game stories are sub-par. Last of Us wouldn't get a 70 on metacritic in the movie department.

Of course. Because you say so. As usual. ¬_¬

The story in The Last of Us isn't the most original of all time. Not unlike most stories in the movie industry in recent years. Its storytelling on the other hand, holds its own very well against even the best from the movie industry. 

I'd have to strongly disagree.

For a game, TLOU has stellar storytelling. But next to the likes of Citizen Kane, or Schindler's List? Not even the same ballpark.


Those 2 movies are a borefest to me, but they are indeed praised quite a lot left and right. If anything, you're bringing the exceptions to the discussion, not the rules.



curl-6 on 09 December 2013
oniyide said:
curl-6 said:
oniyide said:
curl-6 said:
oniyide said:

THats a bunch of crap and you know it. LMAO your not even trying. PS4 AND Xbone had much better launches than Wii U. They cant even keep these systems on the shelves. THe preorder numbers speak for themselves, theres like one or two Wii U games in the charts. Unless you have some other reason why people are rushing out to buy these systems im going to call BS

dynamic environments? you mean being launched into the background? that doesnt change anything you just went from one platform to another, hell you barely have any control with the barrel parts.

It's not crap. Ryse, Killzone et al are not exactly being held up as instant classics. Your argument was we should expect better games than the pre-existing all-time greats of the genre before we buy. Where are the PS4/Xbone games that are the new absolute best in history within their genre?

No, I mean the way the environment shifts, breaks apart, morphs as you travel through it. The SNES games did not have this. It changes things significantly..

Please the systems JUST came out. We already know that launch games are not going to be great, and no im not expecting them to be better but that cant be noticible worst and thats the vibe im getting from NSMB series, so why waste my money?

No it doesnt, thats more of an aesthitic thing and simply moving platforms around that has been done in numerous games before. Its not like the player has direct control over those elements.

Your argument that only the best games in a genre are worth buying doesn't make sense though; that restricts buyers to about 30 games EVER.

And the breaking, shifting levels are absolutely not just aesthetic as it is the traversible parts that transform, and very often in response to the player's movement and interaction.

No that was never my argument, you are trying to put words in my month. My argument was about the 2d Mario SERIES not the whole damn genre that makes little sense as not every game in the genre plays the same. Sonic is different from Rayman from LBP from Kirby and so on.  The NSMB series is not as good as the older Mario games which is why i skipped them. THere is no point for me to buy new games in a SERIES when said games are getting worst. Its no different than someone skipping say COD.

But since World and Bros 3 are still among the genre's absolute best, a game can fall short of them and still be an excellent game well worth playing.



oniyide on 09 December 2013
Shadow1980 said:
oniyide said:

I disagree, the NSMB series as whole doesnt come close to Mario 3 or World, but maybe standards have dropped over the years.


Considering that to me SMB3 is the greatest game ever made and SMW is in my all-time top 10, topping that is a tough act to pull off.  In fact, I doubt there will ever be a game made that will be more perfect than SMB3. That being said, I've played both NSMBWii and NSMBU, and they're both solid games that I'd rate at least a 9/10. And I do have very exacting standards when it comes to games. I'm as picky as they get, and there's few games I would ever consider worthy of a 9/10 score, and maybe a dozen ever worthy of a Perfect 10. Of course, I rate games heavily on gameplay and how much fun I had, so while some people might consider NSMB's sequels to be "uninspired" I think they're a blast, and they're some of the best 2D platforming I've experienced in the past decade (though to be fair 2D platformers aren't as common as they used to be) and are every bit as fun as I'd expect from a Mario game.

It doesnt have to be perfect but it does have to be close. Im not saying the newer games are  bad im saying they lack the feeling that they actual give some kind of a crap. NSMB for DS is one of the most overrated games IMHO. THey actually removed alot of stuff from Mario World. THey added one powerup that you used in about four levels? and a bunch of minigames (i did enjoy Luigis poker, hell i think i played that more than the actual game). NSMBWii, thought the MP was horrible, but the game itself was a better game than the DS one. Better level designs and such. NSMB2, pretty clear they rushed that out to have something for 3ds, its still fun. NSMBWiiU just burned out at this point. ANd honestly Id say Rayman Origins is a better game than all of them. There not bad but IMHO there are better games in the genre if people actual got out their comfort zone and cared to look. Or ill just stick to the better Marios and save money.